marketers to ceos: the expanding role of growth leaders in accounting | gear up for growth

strategic thinking, curiosity, and innovation can turn traditional marketing roles into firm leadership opportunities.

this is a preview. the complete 1-hour video episode, with commentary and transcript, is first available exclusively to pro members | go pro here

sponsored by 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间 pro membership, where accounting pros go pro  – see today’s special offer

click to subscribe anywhere: apple, google/youtube, spotify, iheart, deezer, amazon music and audible, player fm, audacy, gaana (india), boomplay (africa), or rss.

 

gear up for growth
with jean caragher
for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间

in a special episode of gear up for growth, host jean caragher hands the mic to guest facilitator sarah dobek, president of inovautus consulting, to lead an inspiring conversation about career opportunities in accounting marketing.

joining the panel are four powerhouse leaders whose diverse journeys showcase just how far the profession has evolved:

gear up for growth spotlights the best strategies for smart and efficient growth in today’s competitive landscape. more gear up for growth here | more jean caragher here | get her best-selling handbook, the 90-day marketing plan for cpa firms, here | more 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间 videos and podcasts here

• julie tucek, marketing director at legacy professionals;

• eric majchrzak, ceo of beachfleischman;

• carrie steffen, co-founder and president of the whetstone group, recently announced as the next ceo of the iowa society of cpas; and

• jamie thomas, principal, growth and marketing at bdo usa

together, they offer a behind-the-scenes look at how accounting marketing has transformed from simple communications and event planning to a strategic, growth-driving powerhouse within firms—and where it’s heading next.

“marketing in accounting firms is no longer just about communications,” says dobek, setting the tone early. “it’s about driving client experience, business development, and firm strategy.” each panelist describes how their career trajectories reflect this evolution. tucek

tells the group how she shifted from traditional marketing to spearheading business development initiatives at her firm, crediting her success to deeply understanding the business and building trust with leadership. majchrzak explains how he rose through every marketing title before becoming ceo, emphasizing how strategic planning, m&a experience, and innovative leadership open unexpected doors. similarly, thomas talks about beginning her career in legal marketing before pivoting into accounting, ultimately becoming a partner in a regional firm, and now playing a national growth leadership role at bdo usa. steffen leveraged marketing skills into entrepreneurship, co-founding a consultancy exclusively for accounting firms, underlining the importance of staying open to opportunities.

their journeys are a testament to the profession’s vast potential: if you’re curious, strategic, and willing to lead through change, the opportunities are limitless.

technical marketing skills, the panelists agree, are just the beginning. successful firm leaders must also:

• understand the business details: know how your firm makes money, how realization works, and how different service lines interconnect.

• earn trust: position yourself as a growth leader, not just a marketer. think—and act—like an owner.

• communicate effectively: use clear, strategic communication to bridge the mindset gap between marketers and accounting professionals.

• stay curious: approach the business with a learning mindset and constantly seek to understand client needs and firm strategy.

• insert yourself: don’t wait for an invitation. offer ideas, ask questions, and engage with stakeholders across the firm.

as thomas notes, “you have to bring more to the table than just the next bright, shiny idea. you have to show why it makes sense for the firm’s growth and sustainability.”

looking ahead, the panel sees a convergence between marketing, innovation, and change management. majchrzak highlights the rise of innovation roles within firms, with marketers uniquely suited to lead client experience, digital transformation, business model evolution, and data strategy. steffen stresses the increasing importance of change management, helping firms navigate industry disruption proactively and strategically. the group agrees that today’s marketers must be more than communicators—they must be agile growth strategists helping firms pivot and thrive in an era of rapid transformation.

 

 

10 key takeaways

1. accounting marketing careers are no longer linear — and that’s a good thing. the profession has evolved from communications support into strategic leadership, offering multiple paths into business development, client experience, firm innovation, and even ceo roles.
2. deep business understanding is essential for marketers who want a seat at the table. it’s not enough to market services—you must understand how the firm generates revenue, manages realization, and grows client relationships.
3. building trust with leadership is critical. firm leaders look for marketers who act like owners, not just support staff. trust and strategic insight are key to long-term influence and career growth.
4. business development and marketing are connected — but not identical. successful accounting marketers recognize the subtle but vital difference between creating awareness (marketing) and closing new business (bd).
5. disruption creates leadership opportunities. periods of uncertainty—such as the rise of social media, artificial intelligence, or private equity investments—offer marketers a chance to step up and guide firms forward.
6. innovation is a growth path for future marketers. as firms launch innovation centers and rethink client experience, marketers are uniquely positioned to lead transformation initiatives.
7. change management is an emerging core skill. helping firms communicate and adapt to rapid industry change is becoming just as important as branding and business development.
8. a strong professional network accelerates career growth. connections made through organizations like aam and industry groups are invaluable for mentorship, job opportunities, and ongoing professional learning.
9. young marketing professionals should be proactive — not passive. don’t wait for an invitation to join strategy conversations. insert yourself, ask questions, and add value by connecting marketing to firm growth goals.
10. find (or build) the right firm culture that values marketing leadership. if your firm doesn’t recognize your strategic value, don’t be afraid to seek out a firm that does. the right environment can make or break your career trajectory.

transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)

jean: hello, and thank you for joining “gear up for growth,” powered by 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间. i’m jean caragher, president of capstone marketing and your regular host. but today, we have a special episode for you focused on career options in accounting marketing. let me introduce our guest facilitator, sarah dobek, founder and president of inovautus consulting. sarah, take it away.

sarah: oh, jean, thank you so much. i’m excited to be here. and welcome to our podcast for our listeners. today, we’re going to explore the ever-evolving world of accounting marketing. and this profession has come such a long way in such a short amount of time. if we think about it, we’re only about 50 years old, give or take a couple of years on here. and since then, the marketing and accounting firms has really grown from a basic communications skillset to an event planning to a strategic function that’s driving growth for firms. it’s driving client experience, and it’s driving business development for firms. and so when we think about a career in accounting marketing, we want to spend some time talking about what that really looks like today because the paths are as diverse as the firms themselves and the people involved in them.

and so, today, we’ve got a great panel of people that’s joining us to talk a little bit more about their careers and their past through accounting marketing. i’m going to ask them just to quickly introduce themselves before we jump into some questions today about this, just to give you a little context on what firm they’re with, their size, and what their role is in their firm today. and they’ll share a little bit more about that journey and how they got there in our conversation today. julie, i’m going to go ahead and start with you because you’re next on my screen.

julie: sure. all right. so i’m julie tucek. i’m the marketing director at legacy professionals, which is a 3-office, 32-partner, midsize regional firm, niche-focused regional firm with a national client base. and i’ve actually been at the firm 27 years, and i handle the marketing and business development programs at the firm.

sarah: wonderful. thank you, julie. eric, you’re next up for me.

eric: hey, everybody. happy to be here. my name is eric majchrzak. i’m the ceo of beachfleischman, and beach is a top 200 firm at about 45 million in revenue. we have about 30 partners, 250 employees, and then we have offices in phoenix, tucson, and nogales, arizona, a new office in las vegas. and then we have a location in hermosillo, sonora, mexico as well.

sarah: my goodness, eric. i would ask you to say that 10 times fast, but i think we might be here all night. carrie, you’re up next for me.

carrie: thanks, sarah. and appreciate being here. it’s going to be a lot of fun to have this conversation because those of us who have been here for a while have seen a lot of the evolution sarah has been talking about. i’m one of those folks. i started my career at rsm, so i was with a large national firm as part of their national marketing organization. but today, actually coming up on our 25th anniversary, i’m co-founder and president of a company called the whetstone group, which is a consulting firm that serves exclusively the accounting space. so all of our clients are firms across the country. we’ve served firms in canada. we’ve served firms in the caribbean, a few in europe. so we have a little bit of an international footprint but definitely are focused on the accounting space specifically. so super excited to be here with you all today.

sarah: great. and, jamie, what about you?

jamie: hi, everyone. again, thank you so much for allowing us to have this time. i am so passionate about the avenues that are available to accounting marketing professionals today that probably weren’t available when i started in this profession about 25 years ago, maybe even longer than that. so i am currently with bdo usa, which is a national firm. we have about 2.8 billion in revenues, 12,000 employees, 870 principals. they are now called principals, not partners, as we did in esop a couple of years ago, so those of you that heard that news. i did start my career with a local firm and was a marketing coordinator for them. i started this profession in the late ’90s and then joined another local firm, became their first marketing director in the early 2000s, did become a partner with that firm, and then we joined bdo in 2016. and i now have a national role on the marketing team for bdo.

sarah: oh, wonderful. as you guys can see, we’ve got an excellent panel of perspective that we’re going to share with you today. i’m going to go ahead and jump into it, and we’ve got a lot we want to get through with our listeners today. but, julie, you mentioned to me that you are responsible for marketing and business development, and we all know on this call that those are very distinctive roles. but talk to us a little bit more about how your role has become more focused on business development having started in marketing. what did that look like for you?

julie: sure. so i guess i’ll go back to what everyone was talking about, which is i did join a very small regional firm in virginia first and developed their very first marketing program, i think, because that firm was so small. also, my passion has always been business development and people connections. so i started like that there. and then when i came to my current firm, about 27 years ago, and looked in chicago at all different firm sizes, one of them, in fact, was bdo that i had an offer from. and i chose my firm, which at the time was a firm called thomas havey, is so that i could…i knew that i could integrate them at a firm of that size being not part of a marketing team but leading the marketing team. and in fact, at that point, i was the only person on the marketing team. so i developed the program, again, but it was at my second firm, so kind of to two points, which was the roadmap of marketing but also the integration of business development.

and at a firm size that we were, i was really able to know our clients and be a part of it so that i was able to see everything that we did in marketing, how it directly led to business development, because i was, in fact, the person kind of handling both of those, along with my partners and principals. so i think we’ve always really played to the talents of everyone on our team at my firm, and for me, the business development is really where my passion is and where i find the most joy and where i think i can create the most value at my firm. so along with my partners and principals and managers, i really do deal with each and every new business opportunity that comes in the door here. and as a result, i kind of outsourced a lot of the marketing pieces. while i manage it, i outsource a lot of it, just kind of playing to where i think my skills best lead our firm to a strong growth.

sarah: yeah. that’s wonderful. what a great journey, and i think we have a lot of marketing professionals that take that same path that you’ve taken. and it’s a natural evolution in some of this. carrie, i’m going to go to you next because you have a really interesting background and role that you’ve shared, and you have probably a different perspective, but i think you’ve been on a similar path over the years.

carrie: i have been, and i think that what julie was saying about seeing how marketing leads directly to that sales process, those two things are related but not the same and seeing how one provides a trajectory for the others. and so in my path, i started out, as i mentioned, with a large national firm, very sort of siloed in their marketing department. my role was purely marketing, and i managed marketing people and sort of did all the things that went along with marketing at the time. even that has probably changed because that was a long time ago. but i started out on a pure marketing path. and then when we decided, when my two partners and i decided to start our own consulting firm that was focused on marketing for the accounting profession, what i quickly learned about that is that if you don’t have sales, if you only have marketing and you don’t have sales, you don’t generate very much revenue.

so i was sort of led into the business development side of things in my career path and learning about that by necessity because we had started a firm and we needed clients. and so it was really interesting for me to sort of learn on the fly how that happened, but i think it also gave me insight into what our practitioners go through, you know, what our partners who are developing business for their firms, and sort of balancing the two sides of having to generate the work as well as having to do the work in a lot of cases. so a lot of the clients that i work with aren’t as fortunate to have someone like julie who can really help facilitate that in a role that, you know, doesn’t necessarily have to follow through with the client service piece of it all the time. so it’s an interesting dynamic and an interesting perspective. but we made that decision because we recognized when we started our firm that a lot of firms had that challenge.

we saw it within our own firm, but we also knew that there were lots of other firms in that space that were wrestling with, how do we manage all this? how do we figure it out? and again, back in 2000 when we started, there weren’t that many people talking about the two things together. they were sort of lumping everything into one category of marketing and didn’t even really know what that meant. and so we felt like there was an opportunity to help the profession grow in this area. and so that’s really how i got into the consulting side of things. and i don’t think i set out to be a consultant. i didn’t. you know, nobody goes to school and is like, “i’m going to be an accounting marketing consultant.” like, that’s not a career path you choose in college. but it is one of those things that, you know, you sort of take a step and you’re like, “oh, that’s kind of interesting.” and then that leads you to another step. and then you’re like, “well, this is kind of interesting, too.”

and so it’s been a little bit of a winding journey, and i think others of you on this call can also relate to that. but it’s been super interesting. and i think it lends itself to this reinforcement of being open to the possibilities that come your way, right, and making yourself available for those things that might feel uncomfortable at the time but can be really rewarding in the long run.

sarah: carrie, i love those comments. i’m going to come back to them a little later. i want to hear from you, eric, next because you’ve definitely had a really unique path and journey. can you share just a little bit more about how you ended up becoming a ceo? we probably have some listeners on this call wondering, why do we have a ceo on the call? and we’d love for you to share a little bit of your story here.

eric: sure. so i have been in the profession for 22 years. my time is split between two firms, a firm in new york state, which was a top 100 firm, and i’ve been at my firm, beachfleischman, now for about 13 years. i’ve had probably every role you could have in accounting marketing, starting off as a marketing coordinator way back when to a marketing, i think, manager, to a senior marketing manager, director of marketing, then to a cmo, from cmo to chief strategy officer, and from chief strategy officer to ceo. and i’m a ceo because we have a holding company, an s-corp holding company that’s hovering above all of our related entities.

so i never contemplated being a ceo. just like carrie said, it just kind of happened. and my big dream was to be an owner of an accounting firm, and i could not do that in new york state because they had a rule. you had to be a registered or a licensed cpa to be an owner, which ironically, they just, i think, got rid of two years ago only. so they were really late to the game. arizona did not have that hang-up, i call it. so when i came to beachfleischman some 12, 13 years ago, i was promised that i could be a shareholder. and so i joined the firm as a cmo. i did that for about five or six years and then transformed my role to a chief strategy officer. and right at about that time, one of our founding partners, marc fleischman, announced his retirement, and we had a very public, kind of transparent process where existing partners could throw their name in the hat. and still, even at that point, i hadn’t contemplated it until i had a number of partners come to me and say, “you need to put your name in.” i’m like, “me?” like, i didn’t even think about it.

but i think it did make sense in a lot of ways because of some of the things that i was working on, mainly as a chief strategy officer. certainly, the cmo role helped me prove that i could form and create a marketing function with a team, a cohesive team that could drive revenue. so we are a revenue-producing arm of the firm. when i became a chief strategy officer, i started getting into other things like m&a. so i’d led the team that created our m&a framework. i was the principal author of that document. i started getting into our pricing model and our revenue model as chief strategy officer. i was the leader of our firm’s strategic plan. so i was the main facilitator of that, pulling the partners and the different constituent groups within the firm together to put that plan together. so it seemed like a natural progression.

i started feeling already the pressure of making sure that the firm was successful and sustainable, and i thought, “okay, well, why not just get the paycheck for it anyway?” and i threw my name in the hat for ceo. and obviously, here i am. so now, i think i took that role in 2022, and so here we are today.

sarah: wonderful. how exciting. definitely a dream for many, but a typical career path, for sure. jamie, what about you? you mentioned a little bit, but can you expand a little bit on your path?

jamie: sure. i actually started in legal marketing. my degree was as a paralegal. so i was in the law firm space at the very beginning of my career, serving as a paralegal/legal assistant. relocated to providence, rhode island and really wanted to work in a larger law firm. i had worked for a really big law firm, jones day, i’m sure a lot of people have heard of it when i was living in pittsburgh, and moved to rhode island, obviously, a much smaller geographic area there. and there really were no paralegal positions open, but there was a law firm that had a marketing position open. i needed a job, right? it was my late 20s. i moved to rhode island, needed a job, and i thought, “oh, well, this might be kind of fun.” and so started working as a marketing assistant, actually, in this law firm. and a year later, i got a phone call that a cpa firm across town needed a marketing coordinator. i thought, “okay, well, i don’t really know anything about accounting, but let me just try this.” and i had a mentor at the time, actually, that said, “you can do this. this is marketing, a professional service.” law firm, accounting firm, very similar in the way that they go to market.

and so i started with that accounting firm in rhode island in 1998 and then moved home to jacksonville, florida, which is where i still am today, in 2000, was looking for a marketing position with a cpa firm. and i sent out 10 letters to the top 10 firms from the business journal list in the city of jacksonville, had a few conversations, and was hired by what was then the lba group in 2000 as their very first marketing director. they had never had a marketing position. i was fortunately able to sell myself and the potential value that i could bring to the firm to help them grow. so very similar to julie, i was very much a hybrid role, marketing and business development. i wasn’t necessarily boots on the ground, like, pounding the pavement bd, but certainly worked a lot with the partners and our next generation of leaders. and that really became my passion.

we were going to market by industry way back then. twenty-five years ago, we had a really good foothold in the healthcare space. and it just really worked. i did a lot of coaching with our younger professionals and getting them comfortable with marketing and business development from the very beginning of their career, because i think what we find a lot in this profession is that folks make it to the point where they’re ready to be partner and they haven’t really been coached or trained or mentored in how to do business development, how to do marketing, be comfortable with it. so that was really a lot of what i did in addition to, you know, certainly, all of our traditional marketing strategies.

social media came around during that time, and i had to convince my partners that social media was not just a trend. it was not going away. i remember the days where we were locked out of facebook at the office. like, you couldn’t even access facebook. so a lot of things have changed over those few years. and so i really had spent a lot of time growing that firm and working with the partners and just found myself having a little bit more of a seat at the table. i became a lot more of a consultant for them, the partners in the firm, and coming to me and asking for my input on what i thought about certain things that actually expanded outside of just marketing and business development. to eric’s point, it did become a lot more about all of the strategies, people strategies, space strategies, a lot of just all-encompassing around firm growth.

and so i was extremely fortunate to be asked to become a partner in the firm in 2014. so that was really…it was a big honor for me. it was very humbling but also a very proud moment. and it really just shows that if you bring the right value and you bring the right energy to the table and you do become that internal trusted advisor, you will be recognized for that. two years later, bdo came calling, and we had really prided ourselves on being a local firm. we had really built a fantastic culture that we weren’t quite sure would be replicated with a big national firm. again, because i was a partner, i had a seat at the table for all of the negotiations, the conversations. we had a really good opportunity to make sure that we were doing the right thing for our people. and that was really the biggest thing. we wanted to make sure that whatever decision we made as a partner group, we were making it that would benefit our people.

and bdo, to this day, has walked the walk. it’s a fantastic culture. i had to give up my partner title, which our managing partner at the time, he fought the good fight for me. i didn’t know he was doing this. but of course, i was fully aware that being a partner in a small local firm where we have one office, 120 people, is very different when you’re going into a firm the size of bdo. and so i did give up that partner title. but i have to say, like, what i do now today, and i know we can talk a little bit more about that later when we kind of get into what we’re all doing, but i come to work every day with a new challenge, a $2.8 billion company where we have almost 200 people on the marketing team and working with people across the country in different aspects of marketing, business development, because i do still cross that business development line sometimes, which i enjoy working with our principals, working with young accounting marketing professionals who are coming into the business. it’s just very different. every day is different. and i’m still having a lot of fun, which i think is what’s most important.

sarah: well, and i love that you guys all have such unique journeys. and i think one of the things you all alluded to is, right, there is no typical path. all of you have taken a different path. but what i think i heard from all of you is that you have these opportunities that presented themselves to you, right, and you watch through those doors. i’ve talked about that in my career for years. similar paths to yours, carrie. and what i did, i started at a firm that never had a marketing person either. and you know, you don’t know what that path is going to be on the front end. it’s not linear, right? i think the best career paths are the opposite of linear and a little bit windy and some of that.

but, you know, jamie, you touched on something that i think is important that we acknowledge here, and i think a lot of our listeners probably face this, right? while we’ve been around for 50-plus years as a profession, there is still a lot of mindset shift that happens inside of accounting firms because most of them don’t open their doors and have a marketing person. and in other careers and professions, it’s often the case where that happens. so there’s this evolution of mindset that i see happen inside of the profession. and with that comes a lot of challenges. and so i’d be curious to hear from just a couple of you, which is, where were some of those challenges that you faced in adopting it? because we don’t go from having a marketing intern or coordinator to making somebody a partner overnight. there’s challenges along the way in navigating this profession inside of an accounting firm. and what were some of those for you that you faced?

jamie: was that for me?

sarah: sure. go for it, jamie.

jamie: okay. i think the biggest opportunity that we all have is to, one, always seek to understand, right? like, we have to constantly be learning. i’m still learning to this day, and i’ve been in this profession for, you know, however long. but always seeking to understand, knowing the business, understanding the goals of our key stakeholders, always questioning, always learning, i think that’s number one. i love talking to new accounting marketers and just encouraging them to be a sponge and learn as much as you possibly can, not just about your firm and what drives the revenue, the stakeholders, learn about the profession. if you want to sit at a table with partners or key stakeholders, you have to understand the profession itself and the business, what is driving the revenue.

and so that’s really where i turned the corner because i realized i had to bring more to the table than just what that bright, new, shiny, exciting thing might be, right? so we had to go from, “oh, look how cool this is and how fun this would be,” to, “i think this makes a lot of sense for the firm, and this is why.” so i think that was the biggest piece, that you have to go from being the cheerleader and the advocate for the fun and exciting stuff. still, we, of course, still have to do that, but at the same time, we have to be able to prove why it’s a sound business decision.

sarah: yeah, i couldn’t agree more with you on that, and that seeking to understand is so important. i ran into this the other day in a conversation that i was having, and even, like, personally, right, it’s really easy in this profession when somebody doesn’t understand marketing to get defensive about that. and what i’ve really tried to do is i’ve worked with younger professionals in this area, and even sometimes i have to remind myself, “i had to do this this week,” was, like, reframe it, right, and not be defensive about where they’re coming from. and it is truly a lack of understanding. and i think half of what we do in helping to bridge the gap and help them understand the value of marketing is to be explaining some of that to them and look at it from a standpoint of, “well, they don’t understand this piece of the process. and here’s an opportunity for me to reframe it for them,” and connect some dots and understand it. and i think that when we face challenges inside of this profession, inside of accounting firms, it’s almost always a gap in expectations or understanding that we’re dealing with. eric, did you want to say something?

eric: yeah, i want to add to that. oftentimes, i feel there are significant opportunities when there is massive disruption in the profession. so if you hit rewind and go back 20 years ago, when social media came around, there was a lot of panic on the part of accountants and partners about losing control of the message and the brand and what would the employees or the staff be doing on these platforms. and like jamie said, a lot of firms shut that down. that was a disruptive period that led for an opportunity for marketers to step up and to guide their firms and the profession. a lot of marketers back then were keynoting conferences, going around, doing trainings within their own firms but also at conferences. at the aicpa, marketers were in the lead. i see something similar happening with artificial intelligence happening right now, huge opportunity for growth leaders and marketers right now.

and so when you feel the fear or the profession feels fear or your partner group, that should be a little signal to you that there’s an opportunity for you to step up and help guide them through that. but you have to be curious. like jamie said, you have to take risks. and you’re not expected to know it all, but you can learn it. there are people who have been there and done that, so you start to build your network. you find your pockets of experts, you learn from them, you get mentored from them, and then you can bring that knowledge back to your firm. same thing happening now with private equity and the huge activity with m&a. that is my single biggest, i guess, challenge that i had to overcome at beachfleischman.

so i’m going to talk about something that a lot of managing partners don’t talk about, and i’m going to talk about a big failure that we had that led to something good. but about eight years ago, we had a very large deal, it was a merger, where beachfleischman was going to merge up into a national firm. we had announced it to our employees, and for some legal reasons and some other things, the merger did not happen. and it created this big…we were in a state of limbo. i mean, we had rolled it out to our employees, but it did not happen. the deal never happened. and there was this huge gap or vacuum of clarity at that point, which, again, fear, feeling the fear of, “what are we going to do?” it was an opportunity. i felt that need to provide some clarity.

so i and a team of others helped push the firm forward to number one. we rebranded our firm. we remained beachfleischman. we rebranded the firm. we launched a new strategic plan. and it was at that time when i evolved my role from a cmo to chief strategy officer, which led to my eventual appointment to ceo. but had that debacle, as i call it, not happened, i probably wouldn’t be ceo today. so huge challenges but opportunities for marketing and growth leaders to step up, even if it’s completely out of your comfort zone. it doesn’t mean that you can’t be a leader in that space. i don’t think anybody knows all the answers. it’s just, are you curious enough to drive it forward?

sarah: yeah, i couldn’t agree with you more, eric. and i think one of the things that you guys touched on, and there’s an underpinning here, is that not only stepping up and leading and helping solve problems, but you know, there’s a lot to hear about gaining trust and influence with those leaders, right? and so i like to explore that just a little bit more. and, you know, what skills or strategies or how have you approached that? what’s really important when doing that? julie, what do you think?

julie: so as i was listening to eric and jamie, who i have known in this industry, actually, all of you, but specifically eric and jamie, both at their firms or a different firm, i think what all of us on this call and all long-term marketing professionals at cpa firms have in common is the absolute innate ability to understand the business of the firm and the industry. and it always stunned me to talk to people in our industry that really may or may not understand the actual growth of the firm, how the firm makes money, realization of the firm, the different client lines, and how all that is put together in order to assist and guide your firm to a more successful place. and it’s just imperative to understand the business of your firm, the industry, your competitors, and be very, very strategic in that.

and second to that, understanding the growth of the firm and the undertaking of the firm, is gaining the trust of all the leaders at your firm and becoming one of those people. i started my…in my role at both firms, and i was like, in my mind, i’m an owner, i’m leading this firm to the next place. and i have always operated that way. i’m actually not a partner at my firm. and we have the same thing, eric, here in illinois. you have to be a cpa. but either way, i think like a partner, i act like a partner, and i conduct myself in my role in business development and marketing, and frankly, hr and internal and external communications, if we’re being honest, as a leader and a partner of this firm. and that’s how i’m looked at by clients and within the firm. so i think that’s really the biggest thing to guide young people to success in our industry is think like an owner, be trustworthy, always be looking for the betterment of your firm. and i mean, it’s not what’s best for me. it’s what’s best for the firm. my ego is set aside, and i’m looking at what’s best for our firm to grow and be more successful from the year before and the month before.

sarah: yeah. carrie, what about you? what’s your perspective on this?

carrie: you know, i think there are a variety of ways of saying what i’m about to say. i think some of you have already kind of said this in your comments before this. but in my experience, one of the best ways to start to gain that trust and influence is through really good communication practices. and i don’t know if we talk about that enough, if we emphasize the importance of communication until we’re in sort of the middle of, like, “oh, you know, the deal is going wrong, and so now we know we need to communicate.” but i think that what is special about folks in this role, in particular, is we all think differently and have a little bit of a different sort of approach to things like communication and relationship development, which isn’t always intuitive for the people that we’re working with, right?

so we all have been in those rooms where we are on a completely different thought path than the other people that are sitting there. i am not a linear thinker, and i work with a lot of folks who are linear thinkers. and so it is interesting having to try to figure out how to bridge the gap between those two. but when you start really focusing in on those individual conversations and really trying to understand where another person is coming from, putting yourself in their shoes, then we can start to break down some of those barriers and we can start to figure out how we can move forward together. so thinking about things like that.

i think about the concept also of, you know, how do we build our confidence? because i think a lot of folks who are stepping into this space, you know, again, different kind of thinker, different background, different experience, different way of looking at things, and it can be hard to be a person who’s sitting in that room feeling like, “maybe i’m the person who’s wrong because i see it differently,” right? everybody else has a similar perspective, and i’m the one that sees it differently. and so our inner voice will get in the way and tell us like, “i’m the one who’s wrong because everybody else is…” and so i think for marketers who aspire to building that trust, to gaining that influence, to putting themselves in a position to be listened to, we have to sort of get out of our own way in some cases and force ourselves to speak up or ask questions in those cases.

and even if we don’t know the answers or if we think we know the answers but we’re not sure, you know, talking about that and even, you know, talking about what we don’t know. but using our voice and making sure that we are being visible inside of our firms, that we are asking questions, that we are inserting ourselves maybe into spaces that we’re not getting asked into, and it’s not because people don’t want us there, but it’s more like because they just didn’t think about it. i think assuming the best intentions with the people that are inside of your firm, like, it’s not that they don’t want me at the table, it’s that they just forgot to ask or it wasn’t top of mind to ask, so we can kind of lean into that, i think, as marketing professionals inside of this space to, you know, remember to use our voice, to ask questions, to insert ourselves into those conversations too.

and you know, all of the things that everyone’s talking about, about learning the business and about staying in tune with what’s happening in the industry and all of those things are really, really important. but i think we have to also generate some of that from within to be able to, like, step into those opportunities when they’re in front of us.

sarah: yeah. i love what you both touched on here. i think it’s so important. i think back to my days as an intern, right? and, julie, you were talking about being curious and asking questions, and, carrie, the way that you’re just, like, showing up with people and not over communicating but just doing that in a different way. and i just remember, you know, like, i was so curious when i started as a marketing intern in my firm, and i just remember that my head boss, who was my biggest champion, by the way, hired me on march 15th. nobody understood the significance of that until you’ve worked with an accounting firm, that they interview and hire a marketing intern on that day. and you know, i’d knock on his door, and he’d look up and he’d look at me and he’d kind of, like, bow his head, not in a bad way but knowing, like, this was going to be a challenging conversation because i came at it all the time.

and i remember distinctly when i was reviewing all of the firm’s billing reports, because we were doing our first client segmentation ever, and i, by the way, had to do that manually. it was before some of the advancements and exports with cch. and i just was like, “can you explain this whole wip thing to me?” and they’re like, “well, you know, it’s where we write down our fees.” and i just blank face looked at him like, “but why would you do that? you did the work.” and he looked at me, and he’s like, “i do not have an answer for you.” and he just had this look of, like, the questions that we would pose in our curiosity challenged him, and i didn’t realize until looking back on that years later what a challenge and what an opportunity that was and to the point of, how does that great trust and confidence, how we ask questions, what we ask about and not minimizing that, right, in our perspective can really create some of those opportunities in this profession.

i know we’re rounding out on some of our time together. so i’m going to take us to the future of where we’re going, right? we’ve been talking a lot about what our journeys have been in accounting marketing, and it’s really clear that we have, you know, these varied paths. but you know, what’s next, right? we know all of what’s going on with pe in the market. i think it’s going to have a massive impact in what accounting marketing looks like. and by the way, marketing seems so limiting today because it’s really about accounting growth that we’re talking about. but i’m curious to hear from you guys, you know, where do you see the profession heading? and you know, what do you think marketers should be paying attention to as they continue to develop their careers? who would like to go first on this question? eric? yes, you came off-mute.

eric: yeah. i think there’s going to be, and it’s already happening, kind of this convergence between marketing and growth and innovation. and so, you know, at my firm, we just launched an innovation center within our firm in january, and a big portion of that…one of the pillars of innovation is, and our definition of it is client experience, the other one is digital transformation, the third is business model evolution, and the fourth is data and analytics. but marketing touches every aspect of that. and so you’re starting to see some innovation roles come out now, chief innovation officer. there are marketers who are starting to transform or evolve into those roles. and so that’s where i think the future is because we have to be so nimble now as firms, and strategy is constantly evolving. it’s a living and breathing thing. and so i think marketers are really adept.

first of all, we have more of a holistic vision. we don’t have that linear thinking. a lot of us have almost, like, asymmetrical-type thinking, and i think that’s needed in innovation. we happen to be risk takers more so than the typical accountant. i mean, if you’re going to lead an innovation effort, it’s all about trial and error. you’re taking risks, you’re failing, you’re trying to fail fast, but you’re testing different things and different assumptions. so that’s really exciting. you know, i don’t know that people ever go to college to come out and be a marketer in an accounting firm. somebody brought that up earlier. but i think with innovation, yeah, i think people do want to get into innovation coming out of school, and it’s exciting. it’s sexy, right? so that’s where i think the biggest opportunities are for marketers at all different levels of their career. it’s that merger of marketing and innovation.

carrie: yeah. and if i could just sort of tag on to what eric said, because where my head goes with that is very much related to the innovation piece. and i really think that marketers have an opportunity to play a much more significant role in change management. there is a ton of change affecting the profession in all different sorts of ways. and we are not necessarily working in an environment that is super excited about change. not that anybody is excited about change, but the profession has been doing a lot of things the same way for a really long time. and i think we’re in a space now where we’re being…some firms are being proactive about it and are embracing change and are looking at innovation and things like that, but there are some that are being forced into it, maybe against their will, if you want to think about it that way.

and i think because of our, you know, sort of tolerance for risk, i guess, because of the way we think about things, and certainly because of our communication skills, that marketers can really be at the epicenter of helping their firms manage whatever those changes are, the communication practices around it, the mindset shifts around it, the training needed and figuring out, you know, “how do i facilitate that if i don’t necessarily have to deliver the training, but how do i make it accessible for people? how do i message it to our clients?” like, all of those things that are super important about managing these different changes, i think, is really an important skill set for marketing people to be focused on in the next, you know, forever, probably.

sarah: oh, carrie, i love that. i couldn’t agree more. change management is so critical. i got one final question for julie and jamie, and that is, what advice would you give to a new marketing professional? what’s one tidbit that you would leave as we wrap up our time together today?

julie: i’ll take that first. so i already mentioned, you know, understand the business of the firm, without a doubt. and then i will say, looking at these faces, and everything that you all have said is, like, all in my notes, so it’s kind of fun to be on a panel where you don’t have to say something because two other people already said it. but i will say that a network of people in your industry, which all of us have together, has been absolutely awesome and invaluable from a business perspective but also the kind of people that go into accounting marketing, firm growth. they’re my kind of people. and knowing all of you and being part of aam and all of these different groups and knowing jean all these years with capstone marketing i think is just a really great thing for everybody to take hold of.

and if you are in any of the local groups or coming to the aam summit, make friends at your level and above your level because it’s really an awesome resource, and i think it’s really gone a long way, both personally and professionally, for me. and it’s a great joy. and i’m excited actually to be attending the aam summit in phoenix where we’re celebrating, jean, 35 years since the first aam conference. and so i’ve been in this industry coming up on 30 years. and i love meeting young people, and i think there are opportunities, like eric said, are really endless for the value they can provide to their firms. jamie?

jamie: yeah. so, right, to your point, julie, like, we all would probably answer that in very similar fashion. i think i’d probably go back to my statement about seeking to understand and constantly be willing to learn. know what’s happening in the profession, in the accounting profession, not just accounting marketing but the accounting profession itself, constantly learning about where is our next opportunity, what are the trends in the accounting industry right now, and not only making yourself invaluable to the leaders of the firm but also to the future leaders of the firm. and so spending a lot of time with those managers and senior managers who are going to be the succession plan for the firm in the future and helping them to hone their marketing and business development acumen, and maybe not even the marketing and business development acumen but also how to grow the firm itself. and so spending a lot of time with them and being that invaluable coach, because as they continue to grow, so does the firm. and as the firm continues to grow, so do they.

and so really understanding the landscape of the business, both within your own market, but then outside of that as well, i just think is really, really important as the future of the profession grows, because it is moving. i think as a few of us already said, it’s not just marketing anymore, and it’s not just marketing and business development anymore. it is growth. it is a growth strategy. it is an opportunity. and the ability to identify the opportunities is going to be key.

julie: you know, jamie, one other point on that, and this is kind of age-old with aam, and i hear this every year when i’m at the summit and from younger people, is the people on this call have found firms that embrace this and appreciate the efforts and talents and diverse opinions that we bring to the table in order to move our firm forward. and there are always going to be firms that are not able to go there. they’re not able to look into the future. and that’s totally fine. but from a perspective of our careers, i would certainly encourage people to find those firms. and one of the reasons why i’m still at my firm is because i have found that firm, and i’m able to do these things at legacy. but if you don’t have that, and it’s not going to happen, there are many, many firms that need you and would love to have your talent. so keep looking into that. and we’re all here as resources for all the young people to mentor or to answer questions. we’re happy to do that.

sarah: yeah. wonderful. well, wow, you guys did such an amazing job sharing. i’m sure we could spend a whole ‘nother hour or two on this topic, but thank you so much for your participation today and willingness to share your journeys. this has been amazing. please, to our listeners, reach out to any of these panelists, connect with them on linkedin, feel free to ask those questions. we’re all here to support your journeys and your careers. thank you.

carrie: sarah, thank you for being a great facilitator. you did an amazing job, and we appreciate you.

eric: thanks, sarah.

jean: yeah. and i’d like to thank all of you as well. as i sat back, listening to all this experience from my friends, it is a wonderful time to be in accounting marketing, right? so a couple of points, i mean, there’s a million points, but two, maybe three really resonated with me. you all talked about opportunities, your career opportunities in accounting marketing, and sometimes those opportunities you can create for yourself, and there are other opportunities that are given to you or identified for you. and you need to be willing to take on that chance and what you guys have called that risk to move in a different direction. and the accounting marketing profession has changed vastly over these decades, because it’s not just about marketing anymore, like you’ve said. you could be a marketing firm, and you could specialize in a particular area of marketing, right? and we’ve had people move into bd, client experience, strategy. we could go on and on. and so it’s recognizing those opportunities to create them for yourself or to accept them.

and earning leadership roles at your firm. and as we’ve seen here, we have a ceo, we’ve got partners, we’ve got principals. we see that happening more frequently, which is amazing, because it allows others to truly create a career path for themselves that gets them into a leadership position and able to build their own team. and for partners and cpas who may be listening and watching to this, this panel has also expressed a lot of very important information for you to listen to. if you’re in a position to hire your first marketer or business developer, or maybe you have a marketer or business developer and you recognize the need to build your team, please listen to this again, because the panel has shared a lot of very important information for you and how to make those hires and how to help make those people successful within your firm.

okay, guys, thanks again so much. and thank you, everybody, for tuning into “gear up for growth.” and i will see you next time.

posted on may 2, 2025