meet your clients where they are.
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the disruptors
with liz farr
when tina mcgill, founder of mmas cpa, transitioned from working as an assistant cfo at a university to public accounting, she first noticed “how segmented we were from the client experience.” she was delivering the data the partners told her needed to be delivered, “but the client didn’t necessarily understand what i was delivering.” for seven years, in her conversations with clients, she followed the “checklist of what i’m supposed to give you.” while she felt good about achieving what she was supposed to do, she realized that she “wasn’t creating meaningful impact.”
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that insight inspired her to start her advisory journey to provide clients with the information they need for success. “what business owners are really looking for are actionable insights,” says mcgill. she points out that, as accountants, “there’s so much value that we can bring to the table with these numbers and analytics and data, but we’re not providing it in a way that’s efficient and effective for them to make decisions.”
before each monthly meeting, her clients submit questions about their pain points. this helps mcgill and her team “cater our financial statement review to, ‘how do these numbers impact what keeps you up at night? and how can we solve for that together?’” she says. repeating this over time helps to “create an advisory relationship with that client, which changes the dynamic,” mcgill says.
as clients begin to understand their financials better, they feel empowered, which also empowers the team. by taking the time to understand the clients’ issues and learning to explain the financials in language that makes sense to their clients, mcgill and her team are helping clients utilize the information they have to generate meaningful insights. mcgill says, “those are the types of conversations that you can have if you understand what they’re doing in their industry as a whole.”
instead of onboarding clients for free and then hoping their monthly billings will cover the upfront work, mcgill’s new advisory clients start with an intro advisory package for a fee of $9600, paid upfront. that typically covers three months and six meetings, “and in that time, we’re looking at their software, we’re looking at their back office, we’re looking at how they function, maybe what systems they need,” mcgill explains. the upfront fee screens out 40-50% of leads which were likely not a good fit.
at the end of the discovery period, mcgill and her team explain what they’ve learned and offer actionable items along with a choice of monthly package options. “i’ve not had anyone say no from the time that they pay the $9,600 to move forward after that,” mcgill reports.
a large team isn’t essential for having a successful advisory practice. “one solopreneur could be an advisor to 10 clients in the right situation,” mcgill explains. “you have the opportunity, even without the large staff, to create this unique journey for your client, and they’ll never leave you once they trust you.”
19 key takeaways
- to get started with advisory, start with simple conversations. ask your client, “what are the five things keeping you up at night?” cater those conversations to the services you provide.
- you might not be able to solve all their issues, but pick one you can immediately help with.
- if a client is selling their business in five years, you’ll have different conversations over the next three years than for a client who’s keeping it for 15 years. start talking about value early.
- starting with the simple tool, bizequity opened up a new market segment, and now mcgill’s firm is doing quality earnings and buy-sells. over four years, her team has done $30 million in acquisition revenue for clients.
- include the whole team serving the client on the launch call so they know they have a bookkeeper, a cpa, a tax planner, and a payroll person if needed. not everybody needs all those things. include the whole team on the client’s side, so you’re not just working with the owner.
- focus on educating your client. they hear things from tiktok, instagram, and friends of friends and need you to be the filter. ask clients to write down what they hear so you can discuss it at your monthly meeting. let them come with their unfiltered information so you can have an intellectual conversation.
- send clients emails with short videos attached. they may be more likely to watch a two-minute video than to read a document.
- for many clients, a simple suggestion for appropriate technology and help with implementation may be more valuable than the monthly financial statements.
- implement technology one step at a time. billing is the biggest pain point, so that should be one of the first tools. next might be a robust project management system.
- perform due diligence with any new technology to make sure it’s keeping client data safe. check the integrations with other software you use.
- meet your clients where they are. they love apps, so choose a secure app where they can upload documents. some need the convenience of doing everything on their phones.
- keep up with changes in technology. if you’re not on the cutting edge, you’re not going to be successful in five years.
- make sure new clients fit your model. if they need to meet in person, and that’s not your model, they’re probably not a good fit.
- find out what your employees’ needs are. some are willing to work more to boost their earnings, while others need time to take care of their children.
- trust your people as professionals to get their work done. if it takes 20 hours or 40 hours, it doesn’t matter as long as they achieve their goals and they’re keeping clients happy.
- college students need to be shown that accounting is more than bean counting. this is an industry that’s changing the world.
- every firm measures success differently. is it number of clients? revenue? client satisfaction? employee satisfaction? the last two facilitate the future of the firm.
- what are the pillars of your success? work towards all of them every day. growth at all costs doesn’t necessarily mean success.
- plan early for your success. you will have more clients than you imagined in your first six months.
more about tina mcgill
tina mcgill, a cpa with a unique focus on acquisition strategies, brings a decade of experience as an assistant cfo and a background in teaching accounting and finance. in 2020, she founded mmas cpa, p.c., aiming to revolutionize public practice with personalized financial management. leading her team, mcgill has overseen $18m+ acquisition sales and facilitated $10m+ in credits for small businesses. beyond her firm, mcgill is a prominent member of adp’s cpa advisory board and serves as the president of the ut southern alumni foundation board, contributing to education and community leadership. under her guidance, mmas cpa initiated a scholarship program for aspiring accounting and finance students. an influential speaker, mcgill shares her expertise in navigating client acquisition complexities and fostering financial growth through presentations for adp’s webex series, bank of america, pinnacle financial partners, regional events, and the hrpreneur podcast.
transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
liz farr
welcome to accounting disruptor conversations. i’m your host. liz farr from 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间, and in this series, i’m talking to owners of firms who are doing things a little differently than our parents’ and our grandparents’ accountants. my guest today is tina mcgill, founder of mmas cpa, welcome to the show, tina, how are you?
tina mcgill
thank you for having me. liz, i’m excited to be here on this week of thanksgiving. hopefully everybody has a good holiday season coming up.
liz farr
well, i hope so too. well, can you tell listeners just a little bit about your business, where you are, what services you offer, how long you’ve been in existence, things like that. sure.
tina mcgill
our firm is, is originated in nashville, tennessee. we service all clients in all 50 states, states. we consider ourselves a virtual cpa firm. we do have a brick and mortar office in nashville, but we do service clients across the country. so that’s been a unique change for us, with servicing clients, not just our region, but also across the us in our niche market. we started our firm in february 2020, right before the pandemic really took off. so it was an exciting time to be an accountant and cpa launching your own business, out on your own, and we’ve grown significantly over the past five years. we have now 13 staff, two cpas, about to add an additional third cpa, and we have about 400 clients across the advisory platform. so we offer tax advisory, cfo advisory and financial statement preparation advisory. we really focus on how to build value for clients to help them achieve success in the industry that they’re in. our industry is mostly in ophthalmology and dermatology, but we do work with clients across different specialties, especially in the area of medical so we found a niche and really strive to achieve, like, a deep understanding of that industry, so we can help those clients achieve success.
liz farr
that’s great, and i like and congratulations for sticking it out through the pandemic. it’s quite a feat. it
tina mcgill
was. it was a struggle, for sure, but it was great to be a part of watching how cpas and accountants truly impact. i don’t think i even had a full understanding prior to the pandemic, when i was working in a public large public accounting practice, of the impact that we really do have on the lives of the people that we work with, the clients we work with every day. and i think that opened up a unique understanding going through the pandemic of everything we do does have an impact. if you think of what is impactful your financials and understanding your cash flow and the ability to add staffing, that’s a huge thing that we can like control in a way like that, that knowledge and helping those clients understand that knowledge has really been beneficial for us.
liz farr
that’s that’s great. now, unlike a lot of people in public accounting, you started your career in private industry before you went to public accounting. now, how did that time in industry impact how you operate your firm?
tina mcgill
what it really did for me, it gave me a unique perspective. i worked for university, not for profit, so very different from what you experience in public accounting. and i was assistant cfo for a decade, and when i went into public accounting, the first thing i noticed is how segmented we were from the client experience. when i was delivering data, i was delivering data that the partners told me needed to be delivered, right? but the client didn’t necessarily understand what i was delivering. and i understood that when i deliver a financial statement, balance sheet, statement of cash flow, the clients were looking at me saying, well, i don’t really know what this means. and from their perspective, i understood that, because i, at their time, maybe understood enough, like i was assistant cfo, obviously, i understood the financial statements and how budgeting works and projections, but did i understand how all these numbers tie into each other? it took a few years, right? getting my cpa to really understand that. so if you don’t have that background and experience, and someone’s providing you with this information, and you know you need to understand it, because this is the lifeblood of your company, being able to have those conversations with clients. i was having the wrong conversations for at least seven years with clients about this is the checklist of what i’m supposed to give you. and i gave. that to them, and i felt really good about myself, like i have achieved what i was supposed to do. all the financials went out, but i wasn’t creating meaningful impact. and so that’s when we started this advisory journey of realizing what i saw on the private industry side and what i was experiencing on the public entity side, they just weren’t the same information. they we weren’t providing value to the client that they needed to achieve success.
liz farr
i love that, that emphasis on providing value and providing the translation, because, you know, we cpas, we live and breathe the debits and the credits, and we know how the numbers flow, but business owners don’t really have that feeling, but they know that well, i need to pay attention to these, but i don’t know what that is
tina mcgill
exactly all. what business owners are really looking for are actionable insights. right at the end of the day, you’re going to give them a balance sheet, you feel really good that your cash ties and the balance sheets and balance and the liabilities are correct, and you’ve got the current portion of long term debt, they don’t even know what the balance sheet is 90% of clients log in. they go straight to their p and l. we all know that they do. and they go where to their bank. those are the two places that they go to to find answers. why are they going there? because those are the two things they kind of understand. they know if they have money in the bank, and in their mind, they’ve already projected, i’ve got two payrolls coming. i’m probably going to get a deposit of $100,000 so i’m okay this week, we don’t want clients living their lives based on that mindset, right? because there’s so much value that we can bring to the table with these numbers and analytics and data, but we’re not providing it in a way that’s efficient and effective for them to make decisions. so you know, part of the concept that we’ve come up with is actually meeting with clients every month, going through the numbers, but then having them give us their questions in advance so that we can help them understand what are your biggest pain points this month, what are the things that your most keep you up at night? and so we start to try to cater our financial statement review to how do these numbers impact what keeps you up at night? and how can we solve for that together? and if we can do that effectively, then we create an advisory relationship with that client, which changes the dynamic. right now, they’re coming to you every week saying, hey, i’ve got this idea. i’m thinking about going buying this equipment. what do you think? how’s it going to impact my cash flow? and then they start to understand, and they feel empowered. and i think we as accountants, we feel empowered because we understand we need to somehow get on their terms, explain things in ways that make sense to them, in their language, in their terminology, so that they can make informed decisions. because at the end of the day, if we’re giving them financial statements and auditable financials. we just went through an audit. i was like, there were no findings. and the client was like, okay, sounds great. you know, that’s not what they care about. they care if it’s bad, right? but they don’t care if it’s good. so how do we continue to create that value, that conversation, to say, how you know what? why do you have a cpa in your life. what is it that we’re doing that’s different from the bookkeeping firm, the intuits, like? what is different from us? it’s that we understand what your business is and we understand what you’re struggling with, and we’re going to help you utilize the information that you have to generate meaningful insights that you can go back and say, you know what? we’re down 20% this month, our sales guy is not doing great. talk to your sales guy. why is? why is he not out taking calls? those are the types of conversations that you can have if you understand what they’re doing in their industry as a whole.
liz farr
that’s that’s great. and i, and i really liked what you said about sending clients a list of, you know, asking for their questions, because that’s a really easy way to kind of get started in advisory. what are some other things that firm owners can do to kind of start doing that?
tina mcgill
i think, you know, it’s starting with advisory. it can be daunting. generally speaking, you’re saying, oh, well, i don’t do advisory. i take care of the financial statements, or i’m a bookkeeper, or, you know, i only do payroll. i mean, we have people that are in all genres of industry. but step one, i think, is having that conversation with your client, having a checklist to say, what are the five things that are keeping you up at night? and if you’re in payroll, you can cater that to payroll. what are the five payroll concerns you have, or what are the top two payroll concerns you have every month? for instance, you know that’s our conversation with the client. what are, what are the strengths of the industry? what are the weaknesses, opportunities and threats that you face? right? we talk about that a lot. so generally speaking, you can start with simple things like, what are the five things that keep you up at night? because that is going to open up a whole conversation you’ve never had with that client before. and can you answer and can you solve for all of those? no, probably not. but what you can do is pick one of those things that, if it’s payroll or if it’s cash flow, okay, so you’re concerned about cash flow, let’s look at the p l, and let’s look at your statement of cash flow. and let’s see how these relate together, and let’s see what happened this month that’s causing that, that problem. and you can start those conversations with simple things like that. asking them, do they have a cash flow forecast? is a really good opportunity to kind of upsell services. and the other thing that we do quite often is ask them, where do where do they see themselves in five years? if you’re thinking, hey, i’m going to sell my business in the next five years, then i’m going to have a different conversation over the next three years than if you’re going to keep that business and you’re going to operate another 15 years, we need to start talking about value. we need to start talking about, are your financials auditable? we’re going to start talking about, how do we drive revenue so that that ebitda number is as high as it could be, and your valuation is as high as it can be, and we use a system, a very great tool called bizequity, when a client comes on board, it’s something you can do very easy for your clients. you can put it on your website, or just have a link, and all they have to do is fill out this little document, and it basically gives them their value, and it’s non certified, but it gives them a starting point. so we have clients do that when they first come on and they’re like, i don’t know what i’m worth. we’ll go through the little tool tell give them a little report. it says it’s non certified, but it gives them a starting point to say, okay, well, let’s do it next year. let’s see how much value we created between this year and last year, and if, say, the value went down, what caused that value to go down? so those are things that we’re doing, very simply to start that conversation and valuation process, and then what, what actually that ended up doing for us is it started a whole market segment for us where we now do q of e, quality of earnings for clients, and we’re doing buy-sells. we’ve done 30 million in acquisition revenue for clients in the past four years. i mean, that’s something. if we hadn’t have gotten this little tool to just get us started on those conversations, they would not have included us when they decided to sell their practice. they would have gone to the pe firm. they would have gotten an loi. you know how it is the last person to get notified you’re selling your business is your cpa, generally speaking, you usually get an loi, right? so what we say to a client when they come on this journey is not yours alone. we are here. we will be here to negotiate the loi with you all the way to the exit of that sale and make sure you get paid on the ex the back end as well. so not everybody’s going to want to do that, but the thing is, what that does is kind of let you, when you’re asking those questions cater your future and what you want your firm to niche in or be an expert in, in a way that makes sense for your clients. obviously, if you’re a daycare, it’s going to be a different conversation than if you’re you know a pe firm. those are very different, but it’s starting with these questions. get to know your client right, have these conversations together,
liz farr
and it’s so simple to just have a conversation. you know, that simple question, what is your five year plan?
tina mcgill
exactly,
liz farr
yeah. you know, i wish so many times that we had asked that of some of the clients that that i worked with, because suddenly, oh, they’re selling or, oh, you were planning on selling your business for a million dollars and retiring on that and, well, you know your your business is on the downswing, and it might not really be worth even a third or even a quarter of that, or even 10% of that so,
tina mcgill
and that’s exactly why we started using bizequity as the tool. because of that exact conversation, clients would come to us and say, oh, we think my i think my company’s valued at $5 million and you’re looking, you’re like, your ebit is negative 200,000 right now unadjusted, but still right. like, hmm. so let’s really take a look and get a realistic, you know, viewpoint, so that we can actually start having meaningful conversation. so for us, it’s a really good opportunity to help the client educate, right? so i came from education as a background, so my constant thought always goes back to, how do i educate the client and the person we’re working with to understand they hear all of this stuff in the market? tiktok, linkedin. in instagram. friends of friends tell them to write this off. write that off. we’ve all been through it, right, especially when it comes to taxes. and wait, you know you’re going to sell for this, don’t worry. or you’re going to do this, don’t worry. and what i try to do is be the filter i and i don’t tell them don’t listen to tiktok, even though sometimes i want to or don’t listen to instagram. what i say is, whatever you hear will write it down and on our monthly call, bring it back to me, and we will have a meaningful conversation about what you’re hearing in the market. because everyone who’s an entrepreneur is a part of, you know, entrepreneur organizations. they’re a part of other aspects, and they are hearing what they believe to be industry experts coming to them with data, and a lot of times, you know that may be a good fit for someone, but it’s not necessarily a good fit for this client in this situation. so having those conversations and being empowered to talk about those things, i think, really allows them to understand it’s okay to go to tiktok if you’re going to right, it’s okay to do that because they’re scared to come to us, because they think we’re going to think badly of them, or that they shouldn’t be listening to tiktok. and what i’ve learned over the years is to let them come with their unfiltered information that they have, so that we can then have an intellectual conversation about, well, this could work. but you know, augusta rule, do you really rent out your home throughout the year to you know, is it really, what’s the real tax savings? what’s the opportunity for you here and and those are types of conversations, i think that allows them to feel the next time they have a big event happen, they’re like, oh, before i go and listen to the eo person or the guy on tiktok, i’m gonna go ask my cpa, and let’s talk about that together, right? so, so those are things i think are vital in how we conduct business.
liz farr
i love that and and that that kind of insight and that proactive work that you’re doing, i’m thinking that that must be part of why your firm grew so rapidly, because you went from zero to 13 people really quickly. how did that happen?
tina mcgill
so you’re right. it did happen relatively quickly. when we started our practice, it was kind of funny. we actually started taking cupcakes around to a lot of the banks in the area. it was kind of hilarious, because that was our big grassroots initiative. but it actually worked really well. so we had some initial contacts with banks. banks have been the best supporter of our firm far none. of course, investment brokers as well. we have a relationship with ubs that we formed really tight connection with. and i think the biggest aspect of how we got started is i joined lots of different organizations. it really helped to lay the foundation for the firm. so, like entrepreneurial organization of nashville, has been huge for us in just helping us, you know, network with the right bankers, the right advisors, and to build our own network of people. so for us, it started with just meeting people in person where they were even during covid. we did several webexes with bank of america and pinnacle bank on how to what is the ppp. we actually helped some of the banks write their ppp software in the background, because we were we have nothing to do at that point. we were just getting started. so it was like, hey, we can help you. we know all about payroll. so that allowed us to kind of make those initial connections. and of course, once you make a really great connection with a client or a banker or a third party, i mean, word of mouth. referral just grows rapidly. and i was so lucky over the years, had met so many great people when i worked in public accounting, that when we launched our practice, i just, you know, they were changing positions and moving around. so i called them as like, hey, we’re growing our practice. you’ve been a great part of our team over the years, working with me and other firms. and how would you like to join our team? and they loved what we were doing. they could work from home. it was flexible, and we were paying them more than they were making as well. so just allowing that flexibility and allowing them to kind of do something different, because no one wants to feel like they’re not making an impact, and the more that they can understand that our firm is really, truly saving companies. and at that point, i really believe that we probably saved four to five companies with, you know, helping them through the ppp, the employee retention, credit, all those things, and they saw that impact, and they’re like, oh my gosh, this is, this is where i want to be. she cares more about, you know billable more about the client than the billable hour, right? so being able to have those conversations and say, yes, we do billable hours, obviously we have to maintain some type of of solvency, right? we’re a cpa firm. we have to make money, but at the end of the day, if you spend two to three more hours on this client, because they need that. support. do what you need to do to make sure that client has the success that they need, because they’re going to go down the street and tell someone else, and we look at our portfolio based on a portfolio, not based on a client. so if our portfolio overall is successful, then we’re fine. we at the end of the day, we know when our portfolio changes, when we need to add a new employee, and we’re not so tied to billable hours that we can’t make informed decisions that make the client successful.
liz farr
i love that and and i love that you are changing, that you are so flexible in your business model, because as you and i know for years, it was the billable hour, and we lived and died by the billable hour. but a lot of firms are doing things differently. you know now, what are some of the things that you’re doing differently with your firm?
tina mcgill
i would obviously having a monthly call with every client has been huge for us, and laying that foundation very early on with the client. when a client comes to us, they know they have a team so we don’t launch the client relationship with just one partner. we launch a team call so they know they have a bookkeeper, an account, a cpa, a tax planner, a like big group, a payroll person, if they need it. not everybody needs all of those things, but if they do, if they get our our cfo advisory package, it comes with all those those items, um, but generally, we start with that. we start with the conversation. we meet with their team where they are. so we don’t just talk with the owner. we talk with the other associates that work there, for instance, if they’re a biller, we make those relationships very early on, so that we’re a part of their team. when they come to us, they see us as an extension of their employee at the end of the day, and that’s what we want. we want them to feel like there’s sort of a blurred line between being an employee and being their cpa. obviously, their compliance, and we still maintain compliance in that process, but we do try to make them feel and know that we’re here to support their needs. so we have that monthly call. the other thing we do, i think that’s very unique, is we build a tax advisory in as a as an option. so when they come to us, we explain the difference between tax advisory, tax planning, you know, advisory and then tax prep, there is a big disconnect. clients do not understand the difference. they think if you do their tax return, you’re automatically tax planning, and that is a big disconnect, right? because we have the people preparing the returns. but are you really planning with the client, generally speaking, if they’re not part of your tax planning group, you’re not necessarily meeting with that client on a monthly basis or quarterly basis to discuss tax planning. so we have made it we have actually addressed tax planning on a monthly basis and a quarterly and an annual basis. so what happens today is our bookkeepers look at the net profit, and as cfo, for some of the clients, i will look at it as well and say, hey, based on your net income, you need to set x amount over to a tax savings account this month. so we start that monthly tax planning. on that tax planning, call it maybe just an estimate, right? we 25% of net income. well, you’re moving that into an account, so now you don’t feel stressed when tax comes and you don’t have money to pay taxes, or that you have estimated tax payments that need to be made. then quarterly, we have another call to discuss, like true planning. are you going to have a 401, k this year steps? you know, all the things that you would think of that you discuss when you discuss tax planning, and then right now, getting close to year end, we’re having conversations about, if you do this, this is what your tax will look like. so making tax planning an ongoing conversation versus quarterly or annually, when we’re all getting close to year end, clients need to know every month what is happening with their taxes. and i think that is going to disconnect in the industry overall, because we think, oh, we won’t be able to give them an answer. i hear this from my tax part often. he’ll say, well, i don’t know what their net income is going to look like quite yet. i’m like, well, part of what we have to do is plan for what we think it’s going to look like as a forecast, and then if we’re under or over, then we adjust the tax planning, you know, cash flow bank account for that but, but knowing that and having those conversations with that client helps us catch things every month that would have come up, and also it saves that year end tax planning a lot of effort and time. and then we have some clients that are we have 400 clients. so not everybody falls into advisory. probably 30% of our clients are truly advisory clients. the rest are tax prep planning clients, because we just don’t have capacity to make all of our clients advisory. i wish we could, but realistically, understanding that we have a threshold of maximum and trying to make sure we’re upselling the right client with the right. service is really key. but at year end, we always send them out a letter that says, hey, tax planning is coming. if you haven’t received any tax planning this year, now is the opportunity time for you to get this information and then we discuss upcoming trends, right? these are the things you’re seeing in the industry. hopefully, they’ve heard from us, though multiple times throughout the year, so this isn’t their first email, right? we’ve we’ve contacted them every quarter to say, hey, we’re in the middle of tax planning for the quarter. would you like a call? but at year end, we really ramp that up with reminders and videos. now we’re doing videos for all of our clients in ignition, which i really like, so it explains what’s coming up in tax season, the deadlines that they need to remember. as we know, clients don’t read a lot of documents, and we’re sending them a lot of different documentation, so what i’ve found very successful is clients will open the email if there’s a video attached, and read the you know, watch the video for two minutes. it’s like, hey, you have to sign your engagement by january 15. if you don’t, we’re not doing your tax return. they’ll remember that, right? they’re like, okay, she better get this done. or, hey, you haven’t filed your boi yet. it doesn’t appear so if you haven’t done this by december 31 there’s going to be a $10,000 penalty. and what that does is allow them to feel connected to us, even if they’re not necessarily a monthly advisory client. and we’re making a very big push to make videos go out every month for our clients if they’re advisory or not advisory, just to kind of give them what’s going on in the industry. for example, 1099s are coming up january 31 if you haven’t gotten us your data, you need to do so. i mean, little things have such a huge impact on the client experience, right?
liz farr
i love all of that and and i love how you’re really leveraging technology to communicate with them. you know, you’ve already mentioned, you know, doing videos and ignition and bizequity, plus the two of us met at appy camp, which is a real accounting tech focused conference. so can you talk a little bit about how your firm leans into technology? sure,
tina mcgill
technology, obviously, we’re all wondering how ai is going to impact the future of all of our firms, big four, all the way down. and i think what we’ve really focused on is looking at technology as a whole, and figuring out what technology we need for success. in that year, when i first went to quickbooks connect, i remember seeing all of the different booths and being super overwhelmed at the end of oh my gosh, there’s so many things we could implement tomorrow that would make things better for the practice. and when i came back, i wanted to implement everything, but realizing that would be very difficult as a firm to go through a ton of change all at once. so, you know, first steps were, we need to automate billing. billing is the biggest pain point of all firms, right? step one, let’s get that done. so we started that process. and then secondly, we started looking at technologies that will increase the back office support and make us more scalable. so for instance, you know, making sure we have a project management system. we use firm 360 but you know, canopy is really good software. we’ve used that one as well. so making sure we have a project management system so we’re producing reports timely to that client, and then now i’m really looking at leveraging support for transcribing all of the meetings and making sure that we have good information for that. obviously, we have to do our due diligence to make sure there’s security there. that’s the biggest fear, right? that we’re all scared that we’re going to be non compliant. so making sure that we’re researching that technology, so that we stay in that secure compliance software, um, is really key for us. but, you know, the two biggest things we have coming up next from an item, from an ai perspective, is leveraging how we can transcribe our meetings and send out emails right after and put it straight into the project management system, so we have our to do task. i mean, if we can achieve that in this next year, that will be hugely impactful for us as a firm. obviously, we all want to achieve that together, but also realizing that some of these softwares that we look at are very segmented, like, for example, they don’t integrate with other softwares, and that’s been the biggest pain point, right? you get this great software, but it doesn’t integrate with anything. so now you’re manually entering three places. and is that really scalable? no. so now what we’re doing as a firm is we’re saying, okay, before we leverage this technology, what does it integrate with? and do we want to use those other partners? because if we can’t see something that we want to be able to integrate with other partners, then we’re not going to utilize that system. so everything we do now is focused on our practice management software and making sure whatever we do with practice management integrates inside of all the other platforms. and since we love like anchor and ignition are both really great billing options, making sure that one of those. them. so our practice management integrates with that software is going to be key for us as we move forward. i love that because, you know, the firms that i worked at used just basically the default thompson reuters or cch practice management. it’s terrible. it’s really terrible. and so i do not understand why firms are still using it. it’s just, it’s not helpful, it’s clunky, and it it’s not it doesn’t integrate with anything. yeah, and that’s, you know, the biggest key right that we left cch because of that exact issue our employees, we have lots of bookkeepers and payroll where they don’t even need to be in cch for any purpose. there’s no reason for them to ever be in cch. so when we decided to really look at canopy, which is a really good option at firm 360 and there’s several others out there now in the industry, it seems like there’s teaming with options for project management software, i haven’t found one that like is the best of the best yet. i mean, there’s some really good things out there, like financial cents to be coming down the line with some really interesting opportunities, and if it integrates, that can be a really good option. but i think it’s a matter of just realizing that we have to meet clients where they are, and cch is not it. there’s no app for them to upload documents securely to, and that’s a huge deal for us. clients love apps. they just do. they want to text me their documents still even with the app. i’m like, no, you got to go put it in the app that’s secure. we do not want you texting my cell phone number or the company cell phone, right? so if we can’t offer that that to them, why would they not go elsewhere, right? if their cpa still doing everything very old school, or their accountant, and they’re like, wait, this guy down the street now has ai tools and i can they can meet me where i am. i’m out on the road. 90% of the time i don’t have access to a laptop or a computer. all i have is my phone, like, and that’s our physicians. they’re always with a patient, so if they get something, they want to click a button on their phone and it get it to us, and not have to wait till they’re, you know, at a laptop or an ipad or whatever. so you know, if we’re not coming along with the industry, we’re going to lose the industry at the end of the day. is how i see it. we’re, this is self preservation more than interest and and technology. i love technology, but, but i realize if we are not on the cutting edge, we’re not going to be successful in five years in the future. so
liz farr
that’s a really good way to look at it, that it is not it’s not necessarily that we are dragging our clients kicking and screaming into the future, but that the younger generation of business owners needs an accountant that is on their same wavelength.
tina mcgill
that’s right, yeah, and they’re, you know, that’s why you interview the client in advance and make sure that you know that they fit your your model. um, i’m the person who says, don’t take any client for all all needs. like the first thing i do when we meet with client is, do you need to meet in person? if the answer is yes, you’re probably not the right fit for us. and i have some great accountants who are still meeting in person and want to do that right? i’m not saying i don’t ever meet with a client in person, but if it is a client that really wants to drop their tax stuff off in person, they don’t want to use apps, they don’t want to use the process, then they’re probably not the right fit for our firm, but we have great recommendations right for firms that are going that direction, and want to make be sure that we meet them where they are in their technology. so we make sure that we service the client without servicing the client in those types of cases, but i think making sure that those clients fit your model is key when you’re trying to scale advisory, because advisory is very different, that in some ways, if you get into true like advising in the industry that you’re in, you can do some general advising, right, like best practices on business in general. but if you really want to get into deep advisory, which like lasik, eye surgery, those types of things, there’s very specific niche numbers you need to understand. if you’re a daycare, there’s so many children you need to see, right, like you need to have enrolled. same for med spas, you know, how much botox did you buy this month, you if you need to be able to have those conversations as you progress further down the advisor rail road. but at the beginning, very keep it simple. very simple.
liz farr
that’s really good advice. and the takeaways i’m giving are keep it simple and meet your client where they are so. now i want to circle back to something you said earlier that you you work on your portfolio, and that is your metric for success. so hearing that makes me think that you must not have the billable hours your pricing model. so so could you, could you share that with us? how do you do that?
tina mcgill
so currently, we offer three packages to every client, and we use ignition for that. so it’s been very great to make that easy for us to follow. so when client signs up for us, with us, they can start with the traditional advisory, which is the intro advisory package, and that’s $9,600 and they pay that upfront on the call. and then from there, we give them a plan for the next six weeks that we work with them, three months usually is, is what we’ll give them, like six meetings and two meetings a month for that, that price. and in that time, we’re looking at their software, we’re looking at their back office, we’re looking at how they function, maybe what systems they need. clients just like us, they’re concerned about ai too. if we’re concerned, they’re concerned because they realize that if they cannot find efficient processes and procedures, then they’re not going to be successful. or they may be concerned about cash flow. and how do i plan for cash flow. so we spend that first six weeks focused on that, and then we build in the advisory long term package for that client. so the first in, you know, the first few months, it’s 9600 bucks. then we can kind of see if we like them, they like us. we don’t have to worry about trying to look at their financials to figure out what is this going to cost. because that that’s the biggest pain point. right? clients want to know on the call how much it costs for your services. and you know, even at like appy camp, they were saying sometimes it takes us, like, six weeks to onboard a client, because we’re waiting on them to give us financials, the rest of review, and then you do a package, and then now we’re here, and now the clients already moved on to three other people like for the conversation, and they think it moves too slow, because every minute that they they waste is time that they could be putting into their business. so what we try to do is we give them their packages $9,600 a start. if you don’t like that package, then you’re probably not the right fit. so that gets rid of, like, 40% 50% of the people we wouldn’t work with anyway on the front end. so then we’re left with a really good leads, right? so from there, we set up those conversations and advisory conversations. and the thing is, we did that for free in the past. we’re basically now just charging for the onboarding work that we did for free for like, years and years and years. and hoped we made it up on the back end, because we billed enough during the monthly work, right? that that’s how it worked. and so what we’ve said is we’re investing a lot of time right into this. we’re investing a lot of team members on the training calls. we’re investing a lot of effort. so what we’ve done is just built in two meetings for that client to explain what we’ve learned from that discovery period. and they love it, and we give them two to three actionable items. for example, if you’re still using credit cards and you’re keeping your receipts, do you know there’s navan out there that you can take advantage of and we can help you get that set up. or if you you’re not using an online ap ap system, hey, do you know that you could set up this ap system? and many times, we’ll go ahead and get that set up for them on the front end and have these conversations. and they love it, because now they’ve got an american express card that’s generating all these points, and they think we’re heroes. we really didn’t do all that much. i mean, we did, but, you know, it wasn’t as we didn’t see it as significant as doing a funny preparing a financial statement, but they see that as more valuable. so and giving them a bizequity like, quote, like, here’s your value today. that’s all i included in that $9,600 and it probably takes us 10 to 15 hours of time to generate that $9,600 and that’s huge right on that front end, to be able to generate that money, and then we’re like, hey, we’ve done all we can do. if you’re not the right fit for our firm, we loved having you. would you like to sign up for another advisory package? or do you want to go on our monthly advisory plan? which then they get these three package options, they feel really excited that they are empowered to move stuff around and kind of make it their own. and then we start that long term engagement with our client, and i’ve not had anyone say no from the time that they pay the 9600 to move forward after that.
liz farr
i love that, and i really appreciate that you’re billing up front for all that onboarding, because, oh my god, onboarding is so big of a challenge. and kudos to you for doing that.
tina mcgill
thank you. thank you. and i mean, we all have to right and and for context, our clients usually start around, you know, a million and a half to 2 million revenue go up to 20 million in revenue, so you. onboarding. if you’re you know, a client’s 150 to $200,000 revenue. you’re not going to charge them 9600 bucks, but you would provided that to make sure it’s reasonable to cover your costs. but you can, especially because we are offering billable like we’re not focused on billable hours, but we’re offering a monthly retainer service for them, a package. it’s really important on the front end that we don’t feel like we’re taking advantage being taken advantage of, but they still get that level of service right. because if you’re getting $9,600 you’re going to be responding a lot faster than if they haven’t paid you yet. it’s just a different mentality. the bookkeepers are responding faster. i’m responding faster. i know you’re committed. i’m committed to this engagement. so it just makes that process work so much more smoothly than when we were just giving it away. we were giving it away and hoping, on the back end, it worked out, and it didn’t work out. is the thing, it didn’t work out
liz farr
that’s right. now, something else you mentioned is that you offer a lot of flexibility to your people, and i think that that must be really helpful in keeping your people now, what are some of the things that you do to deal with our talent crunch?
tina mcgill
so a couple of things that we do. we stick to our what we’re good at, what we’re experts in, and then we partner. we partner with adp for payroll and hr related items. we also work with an hr company to do with hr issues. so that’s a big component for us, is partnering. we also partner with like valuation companies, because we’re we don’t provide valuations, but we’ll do the bizequity work, and then if they need a certified valuation, walk through that process. so we’re not having to hire that talent, which can be very difficult for a small firm who is trying to compete with the large practices like ernst and young, deloitte, those types of of people who have those tax advisors available. so that’s that’s really important for us. but then secondly, our internal staff, we make it fully flexible if you want to work at home, like this week, for example, our schools out for a lot of the the the area. so all of our teams working from home this week, because they need to be home with their children, i don’t want to ask one person to be in the office and one person who can be at home. so just everybody works from home. it makes a really nice thanksgiving week. i’m still working tirelessly, but they don’t need to know that necessarily, and they’re doing what they need to do. but also, you know, making sure that they have the make sure when they come on board, that i have an understanding of what their needs are. some some employees want a higher wage and don’t mind working the hours right. want that bigger tax season bonus, and we do bonus for hours over 50 during tax season. and then others don’t really need a bonus, don’t you know, that’s just not what they’re there for. they need that 40 hours because they need to go home and take care of their children, their husband has a job, or their wife has a job. so just understanding their needs on the front end and making sure that we live up to their expectations as an employer, that what we’ve told you we’re going to actually provide you with we also offer unlimited pto. we don’t have anybody who who takes advantage or abuses that, because they still have jobs to do. so we focus on this. is your job? get it done. if you takes you 20 hours to do it, great. if it takes you 40, great, as long as you’re achieving the goal. i’m not going to ask if you’re taking off to take your daughter to the doctor or or or whatever, right that you’re a professional. we hired you because we trust you as a professional, and we’re going to make sure that you have what you need from us for success. the other thing is long term, short term disability, offering all those extra benefits that client, that staff are looking for, and making sure we understand what they need some, and we customize every package to every employee as best we can with remaining in compliance. obviously, in that process,
liz farr
i like that and and i would agree that having unlimited pto would probably be such a life changer for so many accounts, you know, for me, um, i remember when my my brother passed away suddenly, and, wow, i get three days off of bereavement leave, yeah, oh, well, that wasn’t very much,
tina mcgill
- and my mom passed away, and saying, right, i was at a big firm, you get your three days. three days is not enough to recover from. you need more than that just to get through the funeral, generally speaking. so understanding that, but also, you know, like we had the recent that recently had. on with somebody, and they took almost two weeks off, and it was okay, because we had a redundancy of operations in place. so that person didn’t drop, you know, we didn’t drop the ball in the work. so just being aware that, you know, communication with the team, obviously, if people start to abuse it, you have to reel reel it in. but if you’ve hired the right professionals, those types of problems just don’t exist as much because you are hiring the top talent, and if they know they have to complete something, they’ll work till seven o’clock maybe one night, and then coming at nine the next day. that’s fine, because they’re meeting they’re meeting themselves where they need to be, but they’re also making sure our clients are happy, and if they’re happy, my clients are happy, because obviously i can’t be there all the time, so anything i can do to make sure that relationship with our larger, greater staff works for that client. obviously also making sure that if they have a bad experience with a client, that they come to us and that we back them. that’s also huge, right? making sure that they understand that relationship, that they come first, that we love our clients. we want to make sure that they’re always taken care of. but if you’ve dealt with a disgruntled client two to three times in a row, and it’s just not being great, then let’s talk about how do we either change that client someone else? because, you know, some people’s personalities just don’t jive, but if that doesn’t work there, then that client just needs to go, and we will help find them the right fit at another firm to make sure that they’re successful. but our team dynamic is we hold that very tightly, and we also turn down lots of opportunity for employees because we see something in that employee if they seem like they’re not going to be part of the team, or that they don’t have the same kind of mentality dynamic, then we just won’t hire them. so i would rather not have a staff member that’s going to disrupt the environment of the team than to have one that’s just there to fill a spot and causes additional, you know, issues in the firm that we have to stop and deal with. i’ve learned that lesson over the past four and a half to five years, be quick to hire, and quick what is a quick to fire and make sure you’re you’re hiring and taking that time to get the right person in the boat. for sure,
liz farr
those are all really good pieces of advice, and i wish that more firm leaders would follow them. i’m not going to name any names, but oh yes, i experienced some of that myself. now the image of accounting has been really struggling lately, and we really need to change it. how do we do this? we’re not just bean counters. we do so much more.
tina mcgill
i think we have to meet the student where they are. i really do. i my daughter is 22 so i have a very strong viewpoint of this, and i’ve worked at the university for a decade, so i understand what’s going on. number one, the industry, accounting industry, is not teaching in public accounting what it is like to be a new age accountant, right? we all know that it’s all the very big four focus. my daughter’s getting her degree right now at a university in accounting so, and she’s in her graduate degree year right now, and if she didn’t work with with our firm for the last four years while she was in undergrad, she would have the same viewpoint as everyone else. it’s very boring. i’m going to work 85 hours a week during tax season. i’m going to dedicate my life, and i’m going to be miserable. that’s that’s literally the viewpoint right of of the young generation. but the question is, are they wrong? what? what are we doing to change that? and, and that’s kind of, you know, where i’m starting to go as a whole is like, how do i develop a cohort of college students that we can take to these conferences so they can experience something that’s not what they’ve seen traditionally in the classroom, right? so we have to modernize the classroom, and that comes with all of the cpas, who are not necessarily big force, working together as a cohort group to create these programs and projects that we can go to the universities and have these conversations, right? so they have days where you can come on campus and talk about, you know, your industry. i think it comes with us actually taking time out of our schedules to make podcasts like this, to do tiktoks. i guess i don’t know about tiktok, but whatever, not the tiktok person, but whatever, wherever the client is, snapchat tiktok, or the the student is, but we have to have these conversations with the students, and we have to show them that that accounting is more than bean counting, that you are truly making an impact. and if there is one industry that’s changing the world, the accounting industry. is it? and if you want to be a part of something greater, we can help you get there. these are all the avenues as an accountant, as a cpa, as a bookkeeper, that you can you can harness for your future plans. so i think together, it takes all of us working together to create these cohorts, these groups, and, you know, going to your local university starting, there is a good place to start, right? you, if you care about students and you’re interested in education and you want interns, be greedy, right? you want to go get interns, the best, best place to start is your accounting university down the road. and that’s what i do. i partner. i’m you the ut southern alumni president like i try to stay as involved with the university as i can. i give scholarships. we just did a $35,000 scholarship for accounting students, and i did that because, selfishly, i want to have an impact, and i want to have a say in what’s being taught in the classroom. and i can’t do that if i don’t put my money in the game right at the end of the day. so i think as as accountants, we all have to come together and figure out, how do we create a marketing message that really truly speaks to where we are today, for students in general, i think that that’s that’s a really good approach, and we certainly need firm leaders that are doing more of that. now in new mexico, there’s so little big four presence that when i was getting my my degree at the university of new mexico, i really didn’t hear much about big four because kpmg had a teeny, tiny office here, and any other big four firm i would have to move away out of state, yeah, so we weren’t really pushed there, so that was good, but at the same time, i don’t think that some of these states are quite as forward thinking as they could be. yeah, i would agree and that even if they’re not pushed to big four, they’re still pushed to that traditional mindset, right? go to accounting, start out as you know, an audit, or you start out in tax. those are your two areas, basically, pick one, audit, or tax, and now they have an it focused path, it seems like coming down the pipe that pre grad school. so you don’t really understand that there’s all this in the middle, right? what about advisory? there’s, is there no advisory path? is there no financial statement path? like, when it comes to advisory and financial statements, because someone is made, you know, bookkeeping and doing all the financial statements, and there’s just no conversation about a path for client, for for students that don’t necessarily see audit or tax, very regimented path. and if you would have given me that option when i went into public accounting, i would have stayed in private, because i can do tax. i have zero interest in audit, but i’m a really good financial statement, forecaster, planning and cfo, right? like, that’s what i do best, and i understand how to build value. and there was no place for me in public accounting, and that’s why we launched advisory at the firm i was at. because i went in, i was like, well, this is great. i’ve done this, learned all this. now, how do i actually utilize the skill sets i have in place to create value for the firm, and that’s when advisory was launched. so i think there’s needs to be more discussion on what advisory is and how, as an like a process put in place, so that these students can follow a process through the advisory journey.
liz farr
that’s that’s really good advice. and a lot of that, i think, comes down to firm leadership. now, leadership is starting to change in firms. but what advice do you have for leaders who want to be better, and especially for women in accounting, how do you become a better leader.
tina mcgill
better leader. listen, obviously, to your team. i think that’s really key understanding too. we work with a lot of women owners that feel like they’re talked down to on occasion, and making sure that we’re meeting the client with the words that we’re speaking, where they are and the students as well, right? if i walked into a classroom and i started discussing ebitda and inside basis and outside basis or or like more complex issues, i kind of get the glassed over look, and that scares people off, because they they’re fearful that they can’t understand. in these these concepts, and so then they don’t ask the right questions, and and then you get kind of taken out of the picture. so what happens most of the time is no one says, hey, i don’t understand what you’re talking about. they just stop calling, or they stop asking, or they stop enrolling in those courses, because they’re just fearful, and i think we need to decrease the fear. and that is like looking at what you’re doing internally and saying, what are you valuing more? are you in val are you valuing the client relationship? are you valuing the employee relationship? like, are you valuing the dollars in the bank at the end of the day. so how do we manage those three very different buckets and make sure that there’s a, what’s the word, a very balanced approach to how we view revenue and being successful? and i think defining success is very different for every firm, right? some people, it’s based on number of clients. i have 400 clients. yeah, i’m successful. or it’s based on revenue. i’ve hit x amount of revenue. but are we really getting are we scoring client satisfaction? are we scoring employee satisfaction? i mean, those are two key points that really facilitate the future of the firm. if those two things are not being met, then the dollars in the bank is, is a short term solution, right, very short term, very short sighted, and then not having the right staff, or staff who are miserable and looking to sit in three to four years, what we have, they said, what most of the accountants in the next 15 years will be completely retired. so we, and there’s what, 360,000 leaving a year, and only 60,000 kids are coming into the industry. we could work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and not fill the gap. right? none of us, if we all work diligently together, we would still not fill that gap. so being able to look at your firm and say, what is going to define my success? is it? what are the three pillars of our success? and making sure that every day, you’re working toward all of the pillars for success, not just one of those pillars. because it can be very easy to chase revenue at all costs. it can be very easy to chase growth at all costs. and i say this to clients all the time, like growth at all costs doesn’t necessarily mean success, right? if you’re very successful with this one brick and mortar, and you’re making 2 million a year, and you have to go invest for three years to start this other brick and mortar, is it really what you want to do from a cash flow perspective? and there’s risk right now in the industry, right? like, things are tight, so is now the right time? now, i think we have to ask ourselves that as cpas and accountants and and leaders, is what defines our success. what is it that we’re going to work for it and make sure that we build our firm as a lifestyle firm, which i’m still trying to do. i’m not saying there’s a great answer for that. it’s a struggle and it takes time. but i also think that advisory is something that that you can start very small, and you can start very easy and just having a monthly conversation with your client. it can be from bookkeeping all the way down to tax. and you can literally make advisory something that you don’t need 13 staff if you really want to get deep in advisory, you do need a bigger staff to be able to achieve that. but in a very small advisory role, one solopreneur could be an advisor to 10 clients right in the right situation. so you have the opportunity, even without the large staff, to to create this unique journey for your client, and they’ll never leave you once they trust you, right?
liz farr
and you know i like what you’re saying about just starting with listening and asking questions, because i think that and and your emphasis on client satisfaction and employee satisfaction. because i think, as you mentioned too often, we look at the the absolute metrics of things that are easily measurable in concrete terms, but it’s the intangibles that really, matter and really lead to long term success for all of us
tina mcgill
exactly, exactly. and know that you’re not in it alone too, that everyone’s trying to figure out this world of advisory and no one has it all figured out yet. even if you talk to people like, some people are very like, oh, i’ve got this figured out. and some people are like, i’m scared to even get started. get started. like, there is a middle ground when it comes to advisory and it’s just dipping your toe in. don’t jump in all at once. like, that’s what we did, right? we started out with bookkeeping, and then we started out with ppp, and then we started ertc. so, so just take it one step at a time, and. that’s right.
liz farr
now, sometimes what we learn best from are not the successes, but the mistakes. and now, what would you say is the most valuable mistake you’ve made and valuable in terms of the lessons that you learned?
tina mcgill
oh, so many, so many mistakes. well, i think step one is, is not niching quick enough and taking all clients at all costs, right? like when we started out with revenue, we just had to. we were trying to pay two salaries. so it was like, okay, whatever client walks through the door. i don’t, i don’t know if i’m an expert in it or not, but they’re now my client, and i’ll make it work. so obviously that was a step one misstep, and i think we all start there. if we’re going out on our own, it becomes like we just almost, you’re, you’re working in fear versus working from a place of empowerment. so that, for me, that was the biggest misstep starting out, because we had lots of different clients, lots of different areas to focus in on, and no real process in place yet, right? and it grew a lot faster than i expected. i really, in my mind, thought two years in i was hoping to have like, 15 clients. i mean, i really had no, like, no plan. so really planning early for your success, because you will be successful and you will have more clients than you ever imagined in the first six months. and really not being prepared for that was a struggle for me. and then i started working like 90 hours a week, saturday, sundays, mondays, you know, 20 hour days, whatever it took, we got the work done. but was i a happy person? no, i was miserable. so realizing that, you know, probably hire sooner, make sure you start looking for those employees very early in the process, even though you may not be financially ready for employees, or if you know, you only want to be a solopreneur, really being super picky, even if you have to pass up like four great potential clients, and making sure that you have a good resource of accountants that you know, for me, one of the biggest things i’ve ever done is joining, you know, i was lucky to be selected for the adp board, and i love adp, the payroll company, but what, what i got from adp was a group of people, and it was a group of accountants that came together. so while i love adp, the advisory board are my peers, and those are the people when i’m upset at or stressed about something in the future or looking at softwares where i’m like, wait, should i go with ignition or anchor, i go out to my group and say, hey, what’s your experience? and those are invaluable insights to have peers that are doing exactly what you’re doing, who’ve done it really well, and those who have maybe had missteps, who so they can tell you what their missteps are and say, well, you know, i don’t want to do advisory. i’ve had some people say to me, i do tax returns. i do tax prep only. i make great money. i don’t want to be an advisor. well, that’s your choice, so not everything’s going to be you need to focus on what you think you’re going to be successful at and make sure it’s what you want to do. and if it’s not advisory, and it’s not your niche, then see what happens if you don’t offer it, right? but, but do i think you should absolutely
liz farr
that’s all great advice. now, a lot of accountants, if they’ve been listening to my podcast, they’ve heard all these things that they should be doing, or you should do advisory and you should do more proactive marketing and all sorts of things. but sometimes what you stop doing is more powerful. so what are some things that you think accountants should stop doing immediately?
tina mcgill
i think you should stop assuming that what we’re delivering to the client is what they actually need. so i think that’s that’s step one, right? and i still do this. i’ll get on a call and present financials and then find out they just needed one answer to one problem that they had that day, and if i would have led with that, that meeting would have gone so much more successfully. so i’m still learning through that process myself of what clients need, but realizing that what you’re delivering is not necessarily what they value, and making sure that you understand what that is. and we all get into this idea that we think we know what’s best for the client, realizing that we are not. we don’t know what’s best for that client. we don’t know what they’re dealing with at home or on the weekends or if they’re taking care of a mom or a dad or or whatever may be happening that we’re not aware of. so just me understanding, getting to understand who that client is, not assuming, not setting expectations that are unrealistic for that client, and meet them where they are. i think that is really the biggest thing to stop doing, because it’s so difficult. uh, the other thing i think that i would say, stop, stop stressing over what you’re not doing, because it’s so easy to go to a conference. i do it. i’ve talked to tons of accountants who i’m really good friends with. and we go to these conferences and we’re like, i’m not doing this. i’m not doing that. oh my gosh, if, if, if you’re not doing something, is it good to research and and check on if it’s something you should be doing absolutely. but don’t overwhelm yourself with all of the changes at once. we’re all human. we all have to make very strategic plans for what we want our lives to look like. and i think, you know, at the end of the day, it starts with what do you want your life to look like, and making sure you’re setting the foundations for that to be your life in the future is really key. so so those are two things i would definitely stop doing. and i would also try to stop pricing three weeks after you get the client, because they want to know the price that day they don’t want to hear i’m going to look at your tax returns and figure this out. you know, you can do a simple model like 1% of revenue. if you say, hey, what’s your revenue on your tax return? okay, your monthly then if your bookkeeping is 1% of revenue, if your cfo advisor, it’s 1.5% of revenue per year. and then you divide that out, and then you have your advisory so it doesn’t and that’s what we do, honestly. at the end of the day, it comes down to what’s your revenue? here’s your package once you get past that $9,600 implementation time. so just making sure that you can get them moved in quickly, keep them going through the process, and don’t, don’t drop the ball in that process.
liz farr
those are all really good pieces of advice for people. now i want you to get out your crystal ball and try to imagine where is accounting going to be in 10 years,
tina mcgill
real time. my belief is everything will be real time. obviously, in two it’s coming into the market. we’ve got elon musk now. we’re excited to become part of what free, free online filing so and private equity is is chomping at the bit as well. so i think that the small and this is after talking to, you know, really great people in the industry whom i respect, like jody padar and others who are like leading that conversation, and it seems like we have to be ready for real time conversations with our clients if we’re going to be able to compete in the market long term and the next 10 years is going to be at how do we sit up and make sure we’re in that forefront conversation with these clients so they’re not going to a pe firm. i also think this gives us a great opportunity for our more boutique firms who are not going to be part of that pe process to really differentiate ourselves as white glove service, like you’re getting a full person, not just an ai bot answering your questions, like you have someone who is like you, who works in industry, and being able to harness what makes you unique and what makes you boutique is what’s going to help facilitate us into the next 2030, years.
liz farr
i love that you know, harnessing what makes you unique, because every accountant i’ve talked to on this podcast has had some different take. they’ve all been very unique, and this is part of what gives me a lot of hope for the future of accounting. so thank you. thank you so so much for sharing all of your advice, your insights, your experience, your wisdom with people on this podcast. thank you so much.
tina mcgill
thank you so much for having me.
liz farr
yeah. now if listeners want to connect with you, where is the best way to find you?
tina mcgill
anyone can email me. tina@mmascpa.com or you can find me on linkedin. it’s tina mullins mcgill. i’d be more than happy to connect i’m very active on linkedin. that’s usually the easiest way to connect with me. and obviously, if you see me at a conference, i go to a lot of the industry conferences, so i’d love to connect with you there as well. so please feel free to reach out. i’d love to help. if you’re starting that advisory journey or you just have questions on software and how things work, i’d be more than happy to help mentor you in any way.