gear up for growth with jean caragher for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间
in the latest episode of gear up for growth, host jean caragher sits down with industry powerhouse phil whitman—ceo of whitman transition advisors and founder of c-suite impact—to tackle one of the accounting profession’s biggest questions: can cpa firms still thrive independently in the age of private equity and nonstop m&a?
whitman’s answer? a firm “yes”—but only if leaders are willing to take bold, intentional action.
gear up for growth spotlights the best strategies for smart and effficient growth in today’s competitive landscape. gear up for growth every friday here.
with more than 25 years of experience in firm leadership, whitman offers two strategies and at least five more imperatives for firms to stay independent.
strategy #1: independence requires infrastructure, not just ideals. “staying independent isn’t passive—it’s a choice that demands structure,” whitman explains. he outlines the must-haves for any firm committed to staying in control of its future:
a real succession plan with younger partners—not just plans on paper
niche expertise that makes the firm a “go-to,” not a “me-too”
smart use of talent, including both onshore and offshore outsourcing
operational excellence, with systems for onboarding and people management
“bread-and-butter firms that take any work that comes through the door? they’re toast,” whitman says. “there are riches in niches—and without the next generation of leaders, you won’t remain independent.”
strategy #2:firms need leaders, not committees.
whitman also issues a leadership wake-up call: cpa firms can’t afford to run like democracy clubs anymore.
“too many managing partners are glorified client managers,” he says. “they need to start thinking—and acting—like ceos.”
what does that mean in practice?
bold goals with real accountability
managing partners empowered to make tough calls
governance structures that prioritize execution over consensus
alignment across partners in vision, values, and strategy
and yes, it might mean giving up a book of business to lead the business. “the firm has to become your biggest client,” whitman adds.
here are other must-haves to stay independent.
whitman offers a firm checklist for those serious about sidestepping the pe wave:
succession bench: not just 60-something partners—firms need 30s and 40s in the leadership pipeline.
people processes: from onboarding to retention, firms must become people-first employers.
outsourcing strategy: with talent shortages everywhere, leveraging onshore and offshore help isn’t optional—it’s critical.
accountability culture: retreats that produce to-do lists instead of strategic alignment are a waste. real change comes from ongoing accountability.
a sense of community: “a firm is only as strong as its weakest link,” whitman says. “you need a culture of trust, alignment, and shared purpose.”
set big, scary goals, whitman says—and don’t apologize for them.
“too many firms drift,” whitman warns. “they react to the market instead of driving toward a vision. it’s time to stop aiming for incremental growth and start thinking 5x.”
bonus tip: if your managing partner doesn’t have time to lead, restructure the role so they can. “leadership isn’t a side hustle,” he says.
whitman
5 key takeaways
firms must have a strong bench of future leaders, including younger partners in their 30s and 40s. without a succession plan, independence becomes unviable.
due to ongoing talent shortages, firms must leverage both onshore and offshore outsourcing.
managing partners should be allowed to make tough decisions without needing full consensus. this includes giving up their own client book to focus on leading the firm.
too often, partner retreats result in lists of tasks rather than strategic direction. accountability must be ongoing, not limited to once-a-year discussions.
the strength of a firm is only as great as its weakest link. whitman emphasizes the importance of community, alignment, and purpose.
more about phil whitman
philip whitman is the ceo of whitman transition advisors and the executive chairman and founder of c-suite impact. he has over 25 years of experience working with and in cpa firms, covering all aspects of succession planning, including internal transition, mergers & acquisitions, practice sales, strategic joint ventures, and lateral partner talent acquisition. he has been named one of the top 100 influential people in accounting by accounting today multiple times.
transcript (produced by automation. not edited for spelling or grammar.)
jean: hello. thank you for joining “gear up for growth” powered by 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间. i’m jean caragher, president of capstone marketing and your host. our guest is philip whitman, ceo of whitman transition advisors, and executive chairman and founder of c-suite impact. phil has over 25 years of experience working with and in cpa firms, covering all aspects of succession planning, including internal transition, mergers and acquisitions, practice sales, strategic joint ventures, and lateral partner talent acquisition. he has been named one of the 100 most influential people in accounting many times. phil, welcome to “gear up for growth.”
phil: thank you so much, jean. it’s such a pleasure to be here with you today.
jean: well, i’m excited not only to be talking to you today, but about our topic, which is getting a lot of attention these days, despite all the talk about pe and mergers and acquisitions, it’s about how firms can remain independent.
phil: and that’s wonderful.
jean: right. so i know you recently spoke at bdo’s evolve conference about how firms can remain independent. gary shamis in an accounting today article identified three options for cpa firms today. one was pe equity, two is to sell to another firm, and three is to remain independent. when should a firm remain independent?
phil: so that’s a wonderful question, and it takes a lot of introspection. what we saw this first round, and there was an article recently that said, you know, the beginning is over, which quite frankly i disagree with. i still think we haven’t even scratched the tip of the iceberg with not just private equity but all the other strategic investors who have come in.
i think the determination to remain independent, we’ve seen it at different levels. so we have so many top 100 firms that, you know, when they saw what citrin cooperman and eisneramper and cherry bekaert did, you know, they said, “oh, i’m gonna sit on the sidelines and wait to see what happens.” and as you probably know, 15 of the top 30 firms in the country have already done something, whether it’s bdo doing an esop, you know, other firms going the private equity route. you know, there’s just… you know, marcum merging in with cbiz. i mean, the landscape has changed so much.
jean: right? so, you know, i wanna add something there because i just recently recorded an episode with richard kopelman at aprio, and he was another one because he said, “jean, you might have read a quote from me saying that, ‘no, private equity is not for us.’ ” and now it’s different. he’s changed his mind.
phil: absolutely. and we were recently working with a top 100 firm that said, “nope. we’re sitting on the sidelines. we’re a very, very profitable firm, and we don’t need the money. and we’re gonna just remain independent.” and a year later, the managing partner called me up and he said, “phil,” and he used the four-letter expletive that begins with a letter f and said, “phil, why the don’ts you send me any more merger opportunities?” and i said to him, “everyone’s holding their hand out. they want cash upfront.” and i believe that was a pivotal moment for him where he shifted from, “we’re gonna remain independent,” to, “well, maybe i need to consider a minority investment because i need a capital stack so that i could compete in the m&a arena.”
so i haven’t answered your question yet though. that decision to remain independent, we see it quite a bit. everyone is not a believer in private equity. and there are firms today that are tremendously profitable. as a matter of fact, there are firms that are tremendously profitable that have, up until very recently, never done a merger in their 50, 75, 100-year evolution of their firm. but for the fact that in the future, they might decide, “we wanna do a big deal with someone,” then they might need money. i mean, they’re gonna, at this point, go about and just fund a smaller acquisitions with their cash flow, or taking a term loan, or, you know, just borrowing from their bank. and they believe that their equity is just too valuable to sell to someone.
but getting back to that other firm. you know, this other firm, they decided, “hey. we could use the money,” because their growth was fueled significantly by merger and acquisition. and what they did, they ended up doing a transaction where they sold less than 20% of their firm. i think it was, like, 19.8% of their firm to a family office. i think the decision to remain independent should come if you have no succession challenges. and what i mean by that is, you know, i’m working with a firm. believe it or not, has 2 partners in their 80s. one partner that i spoke with is 75, and the youngest partner is 63 years old. and there are no future partners in the ranks. that obviously is not a candidate for a firm that could choose to remain independent. as a matter of fact, they’ve probably waited a little bit too long. private equity is not gonna be interested in them. and they’ll probably end up needing to do a collections-based transaction where maybe they’ll be lucky if they get one times gross revenue.
so i think the first thing is, do you have the bench, partners not only in their 60s and 50s, but do you have the 40s and 30s? and i’ve even seen some firms making partners as young as 28 years old. and i think that acceleration of you don’t have to wait…like, when i started in public accounting at pricewaterhouse, i knew that the path was gonna be 12 years if i was good. but then as we progressed… and by the way, i lasted like a year, and then i… big four wasn’t for me, which is a good thing when i look at where i ended up with my career. but in any event, you know, i look at the path to partner, you know, it became as partners stayed for longer and longer.
and, you know, in 2006, we had partners that were saying, “yeah. you know, i’m gonna retire soon.” and then in 2008, you know, the economy took a nosedive with the housing crisis and everything. those guys decided to stay on longer. and so the people that were coming up behind them, you know, had to wait longer. and it became where firms weren’t making partners until they were at a firm for, like, 16 or 18 years. and it’s just too long. and people are just too impatient to stay that long.
jean: right. i mean, that would really take perseverance. right?
phil: oh, yeah.
jean: especially when you’re good, and you’re putting in the work, and getting the results and all. so you’ve named one factor, i would say, in remaining independent. and that’s having that succession plan. okay. so then maybe two. and having that bench strength to enable a firm to remain independent. what are some other of the must haves that a firm needs to remain independent?
phil: i think a firm needs to have niche specialties.
jean: i just wanna go on the record that i did not send questions in advance and that was totally one of the questions.
phil: yeah. well, that’s…
jean: about the factor of niche marketing and specialization.
phil: yes, because i don’t think a bread and butter cpa firm, and i define that as, “hey. we don’t have any specialties. we take anything that comes through the door. we do audit. we do tax.” you know, just plain bread and butter. well, they’re toast. you know? they are not a good candidate to remain independent. so i say, you know, there are riches in niches, and i do believe that if a firm even has a great strength in a particular niche, and are perceived as experts in that niche, that’s another basis for, “hey, we’re the best in x, y, or z. we have the staying power. we have that ability as long as we continue to grow the bench, to develop future partners.”
so in addition to niches, i think a firm needs to have expertise in…the way i wanna say this is the way they handle people. not only having a superb client onboarding process. so how do they treat their clients? how do they treat their professionals? and they need to have an expert onboarding process for them as well. because you can have great bench strength and great partners at all generations, but your people processes are always gonna be first and foremost what’s gonna determine your ability to sustain your firm. and you can be best in class, and there are things that could occur that can cause you to fall pretty, pretty quickly. so how do you recruit? how do you retain?
i also believe that for a firm to remain sustainable and viable, it’s my belief that outsourcing, and that could be onshore and/or offshore, are no longer things that are optional. i truly believe that with the talent challenges, it’s no longer being done just because of the cost savings and the additional profit margins that a firm will achieve, but just the availability of the people. so there are some out there that’ll say that 20% to 35% of your staff should be outsourced or offshored. and there are tremendous, i’m gonna say, onshore outsourcing opportunities, because some firms are still very reluctant to go offshore. i will say that we have found that, you know, the firms with the best metrics typically have either their own offshoring platform, especially on the tax side, you know, where they’ll have their own office in india.
you mentioned you spoke with richard kopelman. richard, probably, if i’m guessing, has somewhere between 200 to 400 people offshore in philippines. we are now working with firms that are looking at south america. i think he’s also building in colombia. and it’s, you know… one of the partners that i work with, you know, there’s that fear of, “well, what if my client doesn’t want it to go offshore?” and this one managing partner said to me that he had a client who was a high net worth individual, but not an uber high net worth individual. so there’s a distinction. and we all define high net worth individuals differently. but when this client said to him, “well, if you send my stuff offshore, are you gonna give me a reduction in my fee? because clearly, you’re gonna be paying less for the talent.” and he said, “phil, i just told this client, ‘first of all, you are not…'” and i would never say this to a client, but i could see him saying it to a client. he said, “first of all, you’re not a large enough and significant enough client to tell us that we can’t send your stuff offshore. if you’re unhappy with us going offshore, then you’re gonna need to find another cpa firm.” the client end up staying.
jean: oh, gosh.
phil: i mean, i would never say anything like that. but, like, when the banks decided, “we’re not gonna return your canceled checks anymore, and we’re just going to give you, you know, a screenshot of it, you know, on the back of your statements,” they didn’t ask us if we were okay with that. now, obviously, there is a form if you’re doing tax work offshore, but all the accounting and the bookkeeping, all that, you don’t have to ask. i mean, i would still tell. you know, that don’t ask but tell. you know?
jean: right. yeah.
phil: because i think it’s important that we’re transparent with our clients. but, you know, it’s a tough decision at the end of the day.
jean: i’m recording an episode on this very topic, i believe, next week. so i wanna get back to our independence discussion, but i will have a question for you after we go offline because i’m intrigued. right?
phil: yes, absolutely.
jean: okay. so we’ve talked about these must haves that firms need to remain independent, and you’ve talked about the specialization, and the succession, and the talent, and the onboarding. so there’s a lot going on here for firms, and not only, you know, profitability, for them to remain independent. i recorded an episode with allan koltin many months ago, talking about the same topic, how firms can remain independent. and he had this thought for firm partners. he said, “let’s stay…as an independent firm, let’s put a little governance in place. let’s make tough decisions that we’ve been talking about forever. and let’s really run our business…or run our firm like a business. let’s not be a 501(c)3 anymore. you know, let’s pretend that we’re in business to make money.” that sounds like him, right?
phil: yes. yes.
jean: so what do you think holds some firms back from making those tough decisions? and how can leaders change their mindset to truly operate as a business-first firm, or use that sort of approach?
phil: yeah. so, you know, and that’s a great point. and what allan brought up there, all too often we see…so we are the trusted advisors as cpas. so frequently, partners in cpa firms are so mired in the day to day, the client service delivery that they’re always working in the business, and not on the business. which is why, you know, as a firm goes through its cycle, you know, we’re a small firm. we’re managed by committee. there’s four partners. and joe is gonna take care of, you know, it, and bill is gonna take care of hr, and, you know, harry’s gonna take care of marketing. and we’re gonna make decisions together, and everything’s gonna be kumbaya.
and then the firm gets a little bit larger, more people, more clients, and it becomes difficult to manage, you know, by committee. so one of them either becomes elected or, you know, is…they decide, “okay. you know, you’re gonna be the managing partner. we ‘trust’ you to run the firm on a day-to-day basis.” and now there’s a managing partner. but most managing partners, they’re still gonna run around and build consensus amongst their partners. and not run the business as if they’re the ceo and making tough decisions. you know? there’s too much fear of conflict. and i think, you know, one of the things with a changing of governance, and whether or not it’s because private equity comes in, or a firm just decides, “hey. it’s time to run this like a business.” i think all the partners need to…if they tap someone to be the managing partner, they let the managing partner manage the firm. people are not always gonna make the most favorable decisions, and you just have to live with it.
and the one thing that i always would say when we would do a partner retreat is it’s okay to disagree when you’re in a room having an executive committee meeting. but the minute you walk outside of that room, there’s a party line, and everyone has to tow that party line because too frequently in firms, you know, joe partner is now talking to a non-equity partner saying, “oh, you can’t believe what just went on in there. and there’s this water…” next thing you know, the staff know everything. you know, the iceberg is much bigger below the surface. and if you wanna know what’s going on, just talk to a staff person.
so i think, you know, most firms that i meet, they are great with their clients. i’ve done partner retreats where i’ve said, “you’re doing $18 million of business annually. those are your fee collections. who can tell me how many hours it takes to generate those fees?” and there’s six or seven partners in the room, and they’re all looking around. and i would say in 80% of the cases, no one in the room has the ability to tell me how many hours of production it takes. now, i contrast that with, “okay, joe. so your largest client is xyz corporation, a very well-known, you know, local business. why is it that you could tell me everything about that business, everything about that client, but for your own firm you don’t know?”
and i think part of that is technology has lagged many years, but now with power bi, and programs like…i don’t know if you know the firm abdo in minnesota. they’ve got, you know, a program called compass that they use, and they’ve got 80 cpa firms using it. and there’s, you know, a firm…i forget exactly where they are, somewhere in the midwest, mbe and tim moy, and they have something out there, practiceerp, which at…you know, every system is talking to the other system. but there’s now the ability to push a button and say, “susie staff person works on xyz engagements,” and we can slice and dice every partner, every staff person, every client. we could look at the contribution margins that each client puts to the bottom line. so information is key. you know, you’ve heard…you need great information to run a great business.
jean: yes. and our ability to collect data, it’s amazing. like, you could probably drown in the amount of information that you could collect about a firm and analyze about a firm. but as i’m listening to you, that requires a managing partner with strong leadership skills and a vision for the firm, and the ability to get their partners on the same page that you were talking about. you know, disagree behind closed doors. so once you’re out there, that the leadership needs to be magnetic. right? they need to have those special skills that people want to follow them. they want to be led by that person.
phil: yes. absolutely. and i frequently said, and i go back to my early years when i was doing a lot of presenting on how do you become a world class firm. and maybe now we could say, how do you remain independent? and i think these qualities are still so important. a, you need to have excellent communication throughout the firm. excellent communication with your partners, excellent communication with your staff. you also need to have excellent communication with your clients. you don’t wanna leave them hanging. why? because what does excellent communication do? it breeds trust. so you need to have excellent communication. you have to have a high degree of trust. and trust means so many things to so many people. and if you bring in a partner from the outside that was burned in some ways at prior firms, that’s sitting on his or her shoulders because in their mind, that’s just the way partnerships work and people are, and that trust needs to be built up.
and then the other thing that you need is alignment of partner goals. so, you know, frequently, if you were to hold out your left hand and view every finger as a ray, those rays are all pointing in different directions. and if we had five partners, you know, everyone’s thinking about something else. they’re not in alignment. when really what we want, if you took your right hand and put it up and you said, “okay. we want those rays of light instead of being divergent to be convergent, and all going in the same direction.” you know, that’s alignment.
and there was one firm i went into, and i was doing a merger transaction. and the most amazing thing, the managing partner of the smaller firm that was gonna merge up, he said to me, “you know, i met with seven people today.” you know, they were doing…this was the final thing. they wanted him to meet, like, a whole bunch of partners. he said, “i intentionally asked every partner the same question. i got the same answer from every single partner. it was, okay, not the exact same words, but essentially, i got the same answer from every partner i met with.” and that’s something that’s quite unusual. so we’ve gotta have excellent communication. we have to have a high degree of trust. we have to have alignment of partner goals. and then the last thing we need is partner accountability.
jean: that’s a big one. right?
phil: and i bet you know where most firms fall on the part of accountability scale. and so when i think of firms wanting to remain independent, if you think of those four pillars, if we can call it that, i think those are critical factors that a firm must possess if they think they have a chance of remaining independent. if you don’t have a high degree of trust, you’re gonna lose partners. if you don’t have excellent communication, you’re gonna have those side conversations, and you’re gonna have, you know, a lot of dissension amongst your partner group that’s gonna trickle down. you know? your staff know when you’re at the doctor. they know when you’re at a baseball game. they know when you’re on vacation. they know everything. maybe a little less so now that we’re in a work-from-anywhere environment. but when you’re in the office, you know, the walls have ears and eyes.
jean: right. right. okay. so i wanna add something else to the mix. i recorded an episode with gary shamis, and he talked to me about his being managing partner at ss&g. and how he was willing to take on less client work, you know, that tangible safety net for firm partners. because if all of a sudden you’re giving up clients, and you fail or they kick you out or whatever happens, like, then what do you do? and he said, “you know, i was…” oh, i don’t know exactly the right words. he says, “but i was confident enough that i was going to be successful at being managing partner of ss&g.” and that gave him more time to work on the business, like you referred to before. and to create that alignment, and those opportunities, and the mentoring, and the people, and everything that we’ve been talking about. do you see more firms that are willing to structure themselves that way and to give their managing partner or ceo the time to be a truly effective leader?
phil: so before i answer that, i wanna shout kudos out to gary shamis because with that confidence, he did build an amazing firm in ss&g. and he’s now building an amazing business in his…
jean: winding river.
phil: winding river partners. he’s an icon in the consulting arena. and, you know, as is allan and some of the other folks you spoke of. i would say as an answer to that question, when a firm achieves a certain size, they need to do that.
jean: what size are you talking about, phil?
phil: so i would say if a firm is…i’d like to see more firms do it when they hit the $15 million range. i work with a lot of firms where the $15 million firm, the managing partner still is overburdened with significant client responsibilities. i remember, so i used to work with ivan brown at withumsmith+brown. and when i was working with ivan, bill hageman was the managing partner in training, so to speak. and i remember bill telling me, “you know, i gave up a $5 million book of business to become the managing partner of the firm.” and, yeah, there were still some clients that would call him, some of the largest clients. obviously, to do that, he’d probably got a five-year contract or something like that. but, yeah, there’s a lot of trepidation amongst giving up, you know, because when you go from being a client server and having a very large book of business to, “i’m gonna pass my clients out to everyone else, and now the firm is my largest client.” if you don’t do a great job, you know, i don’t think they can say, “okay. you know, go back to being a line guy and take all your clients back.”
and i have seen instances where, you know, a managing partner gave up his book of business, didn’t do the best job for the firm, was replaced as managing partner, and then slowly was trying to, like, rebuild the book of business. now, i’m not trying to dissuade anyone from doing that. look, if you have an opportunity…and look, there are managing partners. there’s someone i spoke to, “i have 200 to 300 billable hours a year.” well, you know what? that means you’ve got 2,000 more hours to devote to [crosstalk 00:32:15]
jean: exactly.
phil: that’s okay. but look, then there are other examples where, you know, i don’t know if it remains true, but kevin keane, you know, managing partner of pkf o’connor davies, he was not only managing partner, but, you know, held a significant book of clients. i don’t know if he does anymore. and he still managed to get out and play, you know, five or six rounds of golf every week. you know? i used to joke with him that…you know, there’s a certain number of clubs you’re allowed to have in your bag, and i used to joke that he was members of, you know, more clubs than you are allowed to have in your bag. he’s an amazing [inaudible 00:32:58]. we spent a lot of time together.
jean: okay. so i’ve got two more questions.
phil: okay.
jean: okay? so what is one bold step a firm can take this year to secure its independent future?
phil: one bold step?
jean: one bold step. for firms that want to remain independent, what’s a bold step they could take this year to help make that happen?
phil: so if a firm is not setting goals. so i look at this… i’ve told my team, there needs to be massive action, massive activities that go on. and i think firm needs to embrace sort of like, you know, the kevin costner movie, build it and they’ll come. when i hear a firm, you know, “we’re turning off the business development spigot because we’re concerned that we can’t handle the business.” that’s very foreign to me. i would say, you know, set a goal to get to the moon. and you know what? if you don’t quite get to the moon, that’s okay.
i think i see firms setting goals that are too easy to achieve. and you know what? if a goal is too easy to achieve, you know, you may achieve it, you may not achieve it. but if you set goals for your partners and your people to get them out of their comfort range…like, if you know joe can bring on $500,000 to a million dollars of new business every year, don’t set his goal at $500,000 to a million dollars of business. set his goal to $2 million of business. and let him know that there’s gonna be a great bonus if he achieves that.
you know, i think too many partners, and not everyone, so i don’t want your listeners to take this the wrong way, but too many partners take life as it comes to them instead of setting a course. and i think too many firms take life as it comes to them, instead of deciding what they wanna be and where they wanna be. i talked to some firms that they say, “okay. you know, we’re number…” i’m just gonna throw it out, and it isn’t this firm i’m using. “we’re 86 on the top 100 list. not that it’s about top line revenue or anything, but we wanna see ourselves get in the top 50 in the next 12 to 24 months.” and i think there are other firms that just report their results every year, and comes out, “okay, last year, i was 83. this year i’m 82.” i don’t think there’s a concerted effort, and i don’t think it needs to be, “oh, we wanna grow to a $100 million dollar firm.”
i think we’re a community. a firm is a community. and, you know, just like that chain link fence, it’s only as strong as the weakest link. and i think that community is only as strong as that weakest link. i think sometimes the weak links are invited to stay too long. they’re not replaced. but i do think…i forget whose book it was, but they talked about setting a big, hairy, audacious goal. i’m very goal oriented. you know? i truly believe that…you know, don’t try and 2x. you know, go for 5x. you know? [inaudible 00:36:53]
jean: right. right. i love your comments about the goal setting. and to kinda bring the conversation in full circle, firms could consider creating those goals around their succession, around talent, around client experience. and these other factors that you’ve talked about that firms need to do well in order to remain independent.
phil: a hundred percent. now here’s the challenge therein, jean.
jean: okay.
phil: so we used to find when we would go out and do a partner retreat for a firm, and i had a wonderful mentor in steve erickson, and we had a couple years where we worked together before he retired. but one of the things that he would tell me is, “we come back every year, and they still have the same issues, and we’re still talking about the same thing.” so i think the traditional partner retreat model where a facilitator comes in, and does two days of facilitation, and they walk out, and there’s a list of things that everyone wants to accomplish. so first of all, i don’t think that’s very strategic. i think that’s very task oriented. i think partner retreats need to be more strategic. and it needs to be an accountability master. like, we won’t do a partner retreat, a two-day partner retreat anymore. we do a one-year engagement because we become the accountability master.
but here’s the thing that i would say is, number one, hold yourself accountable. set those goals and look in the mirror. and if those goals are not achieved, it’s not because of joe, harry, or tom, or bill. if you’re the managing partner of the firm, it all flows up. it’s your performance. are you doing what you need to do? are you setting the tone at the top? but every single one of those areas, i think you need people in the place in their roles, respective roles, that truly believe, “if it’s to be, it’s up to me.”
jean: yes. yeah. agree completely. agree. okay. so the last question is a bonus question. what is something that people would be surprised to learn about you?
phil: well, this is an easy one, and maybe it’s a little bit…i’m gonna give you a couple things. so it’ll be kind of a bonus. so i’m a collector. okay? when i was starting out my business and meeting with managing partners, so many of them, i looked at them and they dressed impeccably. and they would be wearing their suit and a shirt with french cuffs with cufflinks. and my father, when he passed, you know, i got his cufflink collection. my dad was a partner at pricewaterhouse. it wasn’t a lot. you know, there were a couple of nice ones, some sterling silver. but most of them you could buy for, like, $5 in a thrift store. i have a collection of 757 pairs of cufflinks that were all collected pre-pandemic. and i stopped collecting them because i stopped wearing french cuff shirts. i now only wear them when i go to a wedding, you know, or a christening or a bar mitzvah or something like that.
jean: and how would you pick? there’s 757 pairs. do you just close your eyes and pick one?
phil: well, i have them all in these fancy glass cases, so i can see them all. and every pair is inventoried, where i bought them, how much i paid for them, and with a photo of them. i also…
jean: wow.
phil: i don’t know if you remember, jean, but my oldest son is now 31 years old. and we went through where we were buying nfts and doing things with cryptocurrency together. and i didn’t understand it. my 31-year-old son was buying pokémon cards. so one day, i asked him about that, and he started showing me. and he showed me where he had bought this pokémon trainer box or booster box. i don’t know if your kids played with pokémon cards.
jean: i know nothing about this. i don’t have children and i know nothing about pokémon. i know pokémon, but that’s about it.
phil: i saw an article today that said if you saved your kids pokémon cards from like 1999, they would be worth several hundred thousand dollars if they were in great shape. he showed me a card that he got and that card was worth about $10,000.
jean: oh, my goodness.
phil: so one interesting fact about me now is i collect graded pokémon cards. they must be graded a 10, which is the highest grading. and the one character… i don’t collect everything. there’s one character, his name is snorlax. and snorlax is this big bellied pokémon that loves to sleep.
jean: that sounds like a good one then. i’m a fan of sleep too.
phil: yes.
jean: well, phil, that answer…i mean, if i was meant to guess what that answer would be, never would i have come up with a collection of pokémon cards, or over 700 pairs of cuff links. so yeah, that would be something that people would be surprised, right, to know about you. well, i have been speaking with phil whitman, ceo of whitman transition advisors, and executive chairman and founder of c-suite impact. phil, thank you for sharing your insights with us today.
phil: thank you so much, jean. it’s been an absolute pleasure.
jean: and thank you for tuning in to “gear up for growth.” be sure to check us out next time when we focus on another topic crucial for accounting firms looking for smart growth in today’s competitive marketplace. i’ll see you then.
