“i had to learn to be a political animal.”
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big 4 transparency
by dominic piscopo, cpa
for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间
in a candid conversation on the big 4 transparency show, former cohnreznick ceo frank longobardi offers a sweeping view of the accounting industry’s transformation, advocating for private equity investment as a necessary catalyst for modernization. speaking with host dominic piscopo, longobardi explains how traditional partnership structures have often hindered strategic decision-making, especially in large firms where a board of ten or more can slow progress. “you’ve got people on the board at different ages, different objectives, and different disciplines,” he says. “a smaller circle with clear strategic goals allows partners to do what they do best: serve clients and lead people.”
more dominic piscopo
more pay & compensation
longobardi also highlights how the profession’s talent model is out of step with the expectations of today’s workforce.
“you hire a top student and tell them they’ll make partner in 16 years,” he notes. “meanwhile, their friends in finance are seeing returns now—when they’re raising kids and buying houses.”
private equity, longobardi argues, can address this by offering earlier equity opportunities and aligning incentives across generations. “we need to make accounting a profession of choice again,” he says, pointing to declining enrollment in accounting programs and the deterrent of the fifth-year requirement for cpa licensure.
longobardi recounts how cohnreznick navigated major hurdles—firm mergers, cultural integration, and eventually a private equity investment —all while avoiding the cultural pitfalls that plague many peer firms. “we really had two cultures for years,” he says of the cohn and reznick merger, “but once we built a ‘firm-first’ mindset, things changed.” that cultural shift, he says, laid the foundation for the firm’s growth to over $1 billion in revenue and a successful transition to private equity ownership, all without appearing on what piscopo jokingly calls the industry’s “naughty list” of firms based on job satisfaction responses in the big 4 transparency database.
sponsored by “it’s not just the numbers: how to move beyond the numbers and deliver real value for your clients.”
by penny breslin and damien greathead. see today’s special offer
now advising private equity groups on accounting firm acquisitions, longobardi shares insights into what investors look for: partner revenue ratios, staff leverage, client profitability, and industry specialization. “you want famous people in each industry vertical,” he says, referencing cohnreznick’s strategy of assigning every partner to an industry group. he also flags succession planning and offshoring strategy as red flags or green lights in a deal. “global staffing isn’t as hard as firms think, and it’s key to long-term resiliency,” he advises.
while many firms remain skeptical of bringing in non-cpas to executive roles, longobardi believes it’s a necessary evolution. “private equity isn’t afraid to break the paradigm,” he says, citing firms that have hired ceos from entirely different industries, including retail and manufacturing. still, he warns that any outside executive must be immersed in the nuances of public accounting.
reflecting on his own rise from regional partner to ceo of a national top 25 firm, longobardi credits his exposure to firmwide initiatives and industry trends as a differentiator. “at my own firm, i was in survival mode. but once i started leading industry groups, i had to understand the market. that perspective is what elevated my thinking.” he emphasizes the importance of leaders attending industry conferences and staying plugged in, because when you apply one best practice at a thousand-person firm, it could be worth millions.
for firms eyeing private equity or simply aiming to future-proof their operations, longobardi’s message is clear: modernize governance, rethink talent incentives, and don’t wait to get serious about culture.
“the next downturn will come,” he cautions. “but if you’ve built a resilient model with strong strategy, global staffing, and aligned leadership, you’ll be ready.”
6 key takeaways
- understand how smaller, more agile boards can streamline strategic decisions, especially when it comes to m&a and major tech investments.
- move beyond the outdated “partner in 16 years” pitch by exploring earlier equity participation or pe-backed incentive structures that resonate with younger professionals.
- conduct a client profitability analysis to identify and potentially shed unprofitable clients, freeing up top talent for more strategic work.
- explore offshoring or nearshoring options now—before the next downturn hits—to reduce costs and build operational resilience.
- assign partners to core industries and develop a go-to-market strategy that positions your firm as a recognized expert in key sectors.
- encourage firm leaders to engage with peers outside their firm, attend conferences, and stay plugged into macro-industry trends to avoid strategic siloing.
more about frank longobardi
frank longobardi is the former ceo of cohnreznick, the current 16th largest public accounting firm by revenue in the us, with over 2,700 employees and offices around the globe. during his tenure, he led a major strategic transformation that grew revenue and profitability per partner by over 20%, launched innovation and ai initiatives, and unified two legacy firms under a single culture. since retiring in 2021, he has remained active in the profession as an advisor and board member, consulting on m&a, talent development, compensation strategy, and firm operations with organizations like sapro and newtek business services. with over 40 years in public accounting and extensive board experience, longobardi has served on 12 boards across public, private, and nonprofit sectors. he brings deep expertise in strategic planning, governance, succession, and growth, along with a strong track record of helping businesses scale. his leadership style blends operational insight with a commitment to culture and people, making him a valuable voice for boards seeking to navigate change and drive results.
transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
dominic piscopo (00:00.856)
hello and welcome to the big 4 transparency podcast. am super excited today to be joined by frank longobardi, the former ceo of cohnreznick and current strategic consultant to sapro and well, a whole bunch of other things as well. welcome to the pod, frank.
frank longobardi (00:16.534)
well, thank you, dom. happy to be here.
dominic piscopo (00:19.959)
yeah, yeah, my pleasure. so we recently met at firm growth forum, you know, kind of midsize conference, huge fan of it. it was was really successful. and i had some really great conversations with you. and one of the things that was top of mind is like, what’s you know, what’s frank doing here? because you’re at the absolute pinnacle of what one could achieve in the accounting industry. and so what’s what’s kind of driving your continued energy in the accounting space?
frank longobardi (00:46.966)
yeah, it’s a great question. know, listen, i’ve been in the accounting space since 1977. so it’s been a long time. and i’ve gone from running, you know, starting a firm, building it up over 23 years, and then merging it into j.h. cohen, and then ultimately becoming ceo of cohnreznick. so it’s been quite a journey. and i feel like i owe a lot to the profession because i really enjoy the profession.
it’s taught me so much. i’ve met so many great people. i’ve had so many great life experiences because of it. know, sappro was good enough to, you know, want me to help them be a strategic advisor to them as they grow their business. and it’s allowed me to kind of continue to stay active in the profession, which i really enjoy. and then with private equity, obviously coming into the profession, it’s given me lot of opportunities.
you know, to meet with private equity firms and educate them about, what i see as kind of a good accounting firm or an accounting firm that maybe has some warts that need, you know, need some improvement. but all in all, it’s been a fun ride and i continue to enjoy working. you know, my golf game is just not good enough for me to play golf five days a week, so.
dominic piscopo (02:04.398)
what are we what are we talking about here you under 100 or
frank longobardi (02:10.006)
i’m under 100, but i used to be a lot better, but i’m right around 90 these days, so it’s not quite where i want to be.
dominic piscopo (02:12.312)
that’s good.
dominic piscopo (02:18.08)
that’s what i’m gunning for. that’s that’s a okay. okay, well, awesome. so yeah, opinions are very mixed on private equity in the accounting profession. so maybe we start there. i think, you know, is the ideal state that private equity kind of is owning all these firms? i’m not sure. like, i think it makes a lot of sense, given the fact that a lot of firms who are owned by partners entirely do tend to under invest in the future. and so i think it’s
frank longobardi (02:29.462)
and
dominic piscopo (02:45.74)
you know, is it the ideal state? maybe not in my opinion, but i think it’s much better than the alternative, which is continued under investment in the future. and if private equity is going to be involved, i’m happy that they’re talking to guys like you who’ve had, you know, very long illustrious careers as a cpa in the profession. and you can really represent that kind of, you know, that kind of perspective for them and make sure that they’re doing it well and that they’re going to be the positive contributing private equity firms. so what’s, what’s your opinion on private equity in the industry overall?
frank longobardi (03:15.946)
yeah, you know, let me give a little history of accounting firms. and i think this is why i like private equity. know, accounting firms historically, the way they’ve been managed, whether they’re small or large, is basically you bill your clients, you pay your expenses, and whatever’s left gets distributed to the partners because that’s the model that we’ve kind of grown up in. and there’s never been really kind of a retention of capital.
mentality. when you bought firms, if you merged firms in, everything was based on future retirement value. so you didn’t have to write a check. you didn’t have to do any of that. you know, so basically you didn’t need to have a lot of capital to buy firms. well, today, with the advent of new technologies and technology being a big part of your budget, and the fact that when you want to do m&a, whether it’s an accounting firm or
a consulting firm, you you need cash. mean, there’s there’s a lot of cash that’s required at the closing in order to attract some of these firms. so i believe accounting firms now are more capital intensive than they’ve ever been. and firms just aren’t really i don’t think they’re prepared for that amount of capital. so unless a firm is willing to go out and borrow money, you know, and take on debt, which accounting firms have always been very adverse to, i think private
dominic piscopo (04:44.291)
yeah.
frank longobardi (04:45.27)
private equity is a perfect alternative in terms of coming in, providing access to resources, but more importantly, providing access to capital so that they can continue to grow. counting firms, i believe there’s so much potential in them that is going to be unleashed with a private equity investment.
and i know it’s not for everybody, so i’m not trying to be here for, you know, pe advocate, but i do like the model and i think the model makes a lot of sense. so i would, i’m a proponent of it.
dominic piscopo
yeah. okay. so you’re saying you are a very, you know, positive proponent of private equity in the accounting firm. and actually one of the big topics at firm growth forum that was brought up was like building for enterprise value is kind of a new thing in the accounting industry. and i think is very positive in the sense of, you know, we’re now kind of focused on a lot of forward looking things and reinvestment of capital. so i think that that’s super important.
frank longobardi (00:11.236)
yeah.
frank longobardi (00:31.896)
yeah, without a doubt. you you know, private equity also brings a few other things that i think are important. you know, one is around governance. know, accounting firms have always been governed in a partnership model. and i can tell you, you know, having served as a ceo and reporting to a board of, 10 plus people, it
it’s a lot to get decisions made. you you have to really kind of work the room and you got people on the board that are different ages. they got different objectives. there are different disciplines. i think having a smaller circle that runs the firm and allows the partners to do what they do best, which is serve clients in and lead people.
i think that’s another way to go. i think the other thing private equity brings to the table is, you know, i believe it helps with attraction of talent because you’re bringing in younger people that have an opportunity to participate in the growth of the firm. and i think that’s really important today because our model has been somewhat, you know, antiquated, right? you you hire somebody out of school, a bright person.
finished top 10 of their class and you bring them in and say, you know what, in 16 years, you’re gonna be a partner. and after that, we’re gonna pay you at age 65, a retirement benefit and we’re gonna pay it to you over 12 years. and it’s not attractive to the young people today because they see their friends joining finance companies and private equity firms and investment banks and they’re seeing rewards much sooner.
dominic piscopo (02:04.334)
yeah.
frank longobardi (02:17.058)
and probably at times when it’s much more desirable in their life cycle because they’re raising kids, they want to buy a house or whatever it may be. so there’s a lot of reasons to like private equity.
dominic piscopo (02:29.838)
yeah. well, that was one of the like kind of panic moments when i started in public accounting was like, oh my god, i’m like, never going to be able to buy a house. and and sure enough, like the later rewards are there. and and i’m happy with big 4 transparency that i’m able to kind of help communicate that at least. but we have seen wages kind of at the lower end of the scale increase quite rapidly over the last kind of two, three years. so, you know, i think there’s a lot of leeway before it becomes, you know, investment banking or private equity.
frank longobardi (02:52.985)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (02:58.872)
where you’re like, wow, i’m out of school and i’m doing fantastic. but it has progressed in that direction. and it’s refreshing to hear a take from someone who is in your position agreeing with that because a lot of the younger people who feel like they’re not being compensated to scale or appropriately within the firm, they kind of tend to villainize some of the older people who are on the other end of that scale and they’re just trying to squeeze us dry.
and and so i think it’s really important for people to hear you particularly right, advocating for that and saying like, okay, like, this does need to become a more attractive position at the entry and early year level. and ultimately, that might help everyone along the way, right? because i imagine a lot of the headaches at the very senior level at cohnreznick, we’re probably coming from, hey, like we’re having a hard time.
frank longobardi (03:43.406)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (03:52.492)
you know, keeping people in the mid level, keeping people kind of in the in the early stages of the career. and so a lot of the problems will then trickle uphill all the way to the partners. and it’s great to be compensated wonderfully. but if you then have to deal with all the problems of the firm, you know, that’s that’s not what anyone wants either.
frank longobardi (03:59.822)
yeah.
frank longobardi (04:09.44)
no, i mean, listen, we used to be a profession of choice, right, for accounting, i mean, for college graduates, you know, they wanted to go into accounting because there were plentiful jobs and, you know, we were paying competitive salaries. but i do believe with the advent of private equity, investment banking and all the things that have happened over say the last 10 years, you know, we all of a sudden are not quite that same.
profession of choice that we were and you’re seeing that in the numbers of accounting kids graduating. now the other thing that happened in the profession is we went to a five-year program and a five-year degree and that’s kind of turned away a lot of the younger people because they don’t want to go to that fifth year and incur the expense of a fifth year. so you know we’re wrestling with that as a profession and i know the aicpa is working hard at trying to come up with alternatives to help keep people
dominic piscopo (04:47.31)
yeah.
frank longobardi (05:04.825)
attracted to the profession because i still believe it’s the best profession out there for somebody coming out of school. you can learn so much, you get so much responsibility at an early age. it’s a springboard to so many different things that you can use across your lifetime.
dominic piscopo (05:22.166)
yeah, yeah, absolutely. and and so for yourself, like you didn’t, you know, for a lot of people, the pinnacle of the career is is becoming partner. and that’s kind of the goal. and you obviously continued a pretty far way past that to end up as ceo of cohnreznick ultimately. so what drove you to want to kind of continue kind of progressing and growing in your career beyond the partner level? and then how did that role like how did your day to day job evolve as part of that?
frank longobardi (05:51.834)
yeah, it was really interesting when we merged our firm, which was about a hundred plus person firm in hartford, connecticut into j.h. cohn in 2007. i had the opportunity, j.h. cohn gave me the opportunity to really work on more firm related growth objectives. so one of the things they asked me to do is to head up their industry groups. went to market by industry. so i had the opportunity to.
to run 10 or so different industries and help them develop their business plans and go to market strategies. and that was really, i enjoy it a lot because i enjoy that whole thing about growth and how do you grow a firm and what are the things you need to do to be famous in an industry and have famous people in that industry. and so that worked out really well. and i think it was a springboard.
that allowed me to, you know, i was on the j.h. board as part of our merger document, but then i got elected to the board by the j.h. cohn partners, which, you know, was obviously an honor. and then when we did the reznick merger in 2012, i was asked to be on the board of the new company. so that gave me more responsibilities. and at the time we had co-ceos.
uh, from each one from each firm, which, know, which is really difficult. i gotta be honest. it’s not, it’s not the best way to govern a firm, but that’s the only way we could get the deal done. right. it was important to get the deal done. and i think tom reno and ken baggett did a really good job of getting that part part, right. and, uh, and then, uh, when i got elected, uh, sole ceo in, october one, 2015, you know,
i threw my hat in the ring and i did so because i just felt i could make a difference. and throughout my career, that was always important to me. you know, what can i do to better the firm, whether it was my own firm, whether it was when i was a partner at j.h. cohn or a partner at cohnreznick. and, you know, the fact that i i felt i could make a difference in the firm, you know, really inspired me to want to, you know, throw my hat in the ring and, and, and become ceo.
dominic piscopo (07:46.083)
yeah.
frank longobardi (08:09.37)
and listen, was surrounded, you when i became ceo, i surrounded by a lot of great people. and these people, you you don’t grow a firm and take a firm to the next level, you know, without that. and i would say the second lesson i learned was culture. you you have to have a singular culture. you know, we really had two cultures for a number of years because both firms were very different. but once we started to create what i call the one firm,
dominic piscopo (08:14.723)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (08:34.926)
yeah.
frank longobardi (08:39.172)
firm-first attitude, that’s when things changed. and i think the firm has excelled after i left, which always made me feel really proud that the firm has gotten to the next level over a billion dollar firm and now has just taken private equity from apac’s partners, which i think is just going to unleash a lot of growth and opportunities for our people at cohen residence.
dominic piscopo (09:04.94)
yeah. well, i mean, you were clearly doing something right, because some of the things that cause major difficulties and challenges are from a culture perspective, are these mergers. and then also we are seeing some firms who take on private equity struggle on that front. with big four transparency, one of the data points we collect is, around job satisfaction. and so we have, you know, we have a top firms list and we have a
you a little bit of a naughty list and cohnreznick has, has not appeared on the naughty list, which is good because you’ve gone through a lot of the, know, you’ve gone through all of these things that can contribute to difficulties in culture while still navigating, not having huge difficulties in culture. so, i mean, you’ve, you’ve, definitely done something right on that, on that front. so, and then on, on, onto being ceo there. so you talk a lot about governance issues.
frank longobardi (09:33.69)
sounds good.
frank longobardi (09:48.6)
no, thanks.
dominic piscopo (09:55.87)
what is that kind of decision making process like? because you are the ceo, so you should in theory be kind of driving the strategic direction. but then at the same time, you i’m sure have a lot of voices because of the typical partner model of, you know, maybe older partners who want to optimize for cash flows and then younger partners who maybe want to optimize more for future cash flows and reinvestment. and how do you think that has changed for who is now the current ceo now that there’s been a private equity deal done?
frank longobardi (10:25.166)
yeah, great question. listen, when you’re ceo with a board in a large firm, obviously you have a lot of power as ceo when you have the ability to drive. my job is really to drive the strategic vision. i had my five strategic pillars and how we’re going to run those through the firm. but when it came time for…
m &a investments or large technology investments and i’m not talking about a $250,000 technology, but you you could spend a million two million three million dollars on something, you know, anytime you had those kind of major decisions, you know, it was a it was a process, you know, it wasn’t, you know, something that was going to you know,
go through on a first vote type of thing. everybody would have their opinions and then everybody would say, well, why don’t we go back and do this analysis and that analysis? i was used to, when i ran a small firm, basically my founding partner and myself, we’d make a decision and would come out of the conference room and we’re saying,
we’re going right everybody and everybody would line up and we’d go right, you know, and then two days later, we’re going left and they would all line up going left in a big firm. you can’t do that. you you’ve got to, you know, and i had to learn that along the way, you know, that you had to be more of a political animal and get people to buy in. and you said it before, you got partners with different objectives. you know, if i’m a partner on the board at age 63 and you want to spend $3 million on a
project or $5 million on a firm, you know, they’re saying what’s in it for me? i’m going to be gone in two years and i want to make sure you guys are well capitalized to, you know, to take on my retirement. so you had those kinds of issues. think today with a smaller board, you know, you take someone like apac’s coming in, david kessler is now the ceo. david’s a good, man. and so he’s got probably, you know, a couple of people, a couple of partners from
frank longobardi (12:34.966)
cr and they probably have a couple of people from apacs and i don’t know exactly, know, but it’s a smaller board. they’ve got clear objectives of what they want to do in &a. they’re going to come up with a clear technology plan and the capital is going to be there to do that. and the partners have a vested interest now because listen, if they can do a, you know, if they can do a, you know, a second bite of the apple and
three to five years, you know, there’s going to be a lot of money made for lot of partners. i think there’s a lot of really good alignment that you start to see, you know, when you get into a kind of a private equity arrangement. and one of the things that’s really fascinating to me in private equity over the last couple of years is how many private equity firms are interested in smaller firms and looking at that as kind of a platform investment, whether it’s a…
dominic piscopo (13:05.517)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (13:25.068)
yeah.
frank longobardi (13:28.474)
25, 30, $40 million firms. so that’s why i believe there’s still gonna be a lot of activity in private equity. there’s still a large demand from private equity firms to get into the space. so i think you’ll start to see more of that. and i also believe as deals happen, they put firms that haven’t done deals in a…
a less competitive situation because if you’re dealing with somebody in your market, that’s a $40 million firm and that’s kind of your major competition and they’ve done a pe deal and you haven’t, you know, they’ve got something to offer that, you know, could, you know, could be compelling to attract people, could also be compelling to attract clients. so, so i think there’s going to be pressure on those firms to kind of reconsider their, you know, go independent type of.
dominic piscopo (13:59.587)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (14:14.328)
yeah.
frank longobardi (14:26.21)
attitude.
dominic piscopo (14:27.714)
yeah. and so talking about all these private equity firms, one of the things that i’ve had a conversation about that makes, you know, some of these private equity backed firms unique, although some non p.e. backed firms like bennett thrasher are doing this as well, where, you know, they’ll have a board made up of of non cpas. right. and this is a conversation that’s happened where it’s like, well, ok, who who might the most qualified head of growth be? you know, is it the partner who?
rose up the ranks and understands absolutely everything about the accounting industry? or is it going to be someone who’s had an illustrious career working in growth and, and, you know, might be an outside perspective and has expertise beyond the accounting realm? you were obviously a ceo who came up through the partner space. i don’t know if the current kind of leadership and board of cohnreznick is mostly cpas who’ve risen up the space, but what do think the trade-offs are of each of those?
frank longobardi (15:25.658)
you know, it’s interesting that i do believe that private equity is not afraid at all to bring in people from the outside. think in some respects, they probably like it because it kind of breaks the paradigm and it gives them the ability to kind of bring in a whole different perspective. i mean, you may see that like with the send, right? send just hired a, you know, a ceo of, i don’t know, maybe a year ago and that ceo is
i think from a mattress background, where they were in the mattress business and grew it to a very large business and ultimately they sold it out. and so he’s got a whole different experience level that he brings to the table. and i don’t think that’s bad. i think sometimes accountants need a fresh perspective as to how they look things. so it won’t surprise me if you see more of that, whether it’s a
dominic piscopo (15:59.031)
interesting.
frank longobardi (16:21.594)
ceo, whether it’s a coo, i think a coo would be somebody that could be very ripe for somebody from the outside, or a chief growth officer. i think any of those positions could be filled by third party candidates that are not necessarily cpas and have gone through the ranks. the caution of that is they have to make sure that you educate them because accounting firms are different. they’re not.
dominic piscopo (16:44.099)
yeah.
frank longobardi (16:50.906)
they’re not the typical kind of company. you’re dealing with partners and owners that have very different ideas and objectives. i always say when i was at cohnreznick, i think our partner peak when i was there was maybe 275 partners. and it’s not easy trying to keep 275 partners with different ages.
different compensation levels, different, you know, retirement dates, skillsets. mean, you know, happy, you know, and trying to keep them in. and you can’t always keep everybody happy. that, that i learned. and, you know, i remember tamarino telling me when i took over, goes, listen, if you want to be loved, buy a dog, you know, because you’re not going to be in this profession, which is, which is very true.
but, you know, i do believe that it’s hard, you know, when you have a big group like that. and once you get, i think, a different governance structure and the partners know their job is to listen, serve the clients, grow our people. and, you know, if you can do those things, you know, we’re going to be successful. and i think that’s where the profession is heading. but i do think you’ll start to see third party people, non-cpas.
dominic piscopo (18:01.518)
yeah.
frank longobardi (18:16.472)
you know, into ownership or not ownership, but skill positions like ceo, coo or cgo.
dominic piscopo (18:24.686)
okay, interesting. and then one of the things you do for private equity groups, which i was like, i was floored by you mentioned is, is you help them diligence deals sometimes. so sorry, go ahead.
frank longobardi (18:34.83)
yeah, i’ve been very lucky that i’ve had a number of pe firms reach out to me over the last three to four years as pe has become more prevalent. with, listen, we need somebody to kind of help us just sort through some of the data, reaffirm our opinions on what we think of the firm. and it’s been fun. i enjoy that. and listen, i know the space so well.
that i could really spend two, three, four hours on a deck that they present and come back with what i think is kind of the good, the bad, and the ugly of the firm, and what are the things that they should really be excited about, and what are some of the things they should be a little bit nervous about.
dominic piscopo (19:23.847)
mm and what are like some of the biggest green lights and red lights for for an accounting firm?
frank longobardi (19:28.61)
yeah, so listen, think partner revenue is really important. know, how much revenue do you have per partner? what kind of staff ratio do you have to partner? i think the higher the staff ratio, the better run firm, the better managed firm. you want to look at, you know, just staff and costs. you know, are they doing some type of offshoring that could be really helpful to their numbers?
and really help them with what i call a global staffing strategy. how are they dealing with technology? what are some of the things they’re doing across ai? you see firms sometimes that are dealing with too many small clients, and those clients just aren’t accretive to the firm’s profit. and we went through a huge client profitability analysis when i was ceo.
i think every firm needs to go through that exercise and see, know, where are there, where do the clients stand within their profitability matrix? you know, calling clients is not a bad thing. you know, you’ve got to be proactive and make sure you’re putting your best resources, serving the best clients. so, so you’ll see some of that and, but you’re going to find that in smaller firms, you know, if you’re acquiring a 25, 30, $40 million firm.
dominic piscopo (20:40.291)
yeah.
frank longobardi (20:55.322)
they’re gonna have a book of business that’s all across the spectrum. they’re gonna have very small clients and they’re gonna have some really marquee clients that are at the top of the food chain, but you’re gonna see a wide range and you gotta kinda sift through that. you gotta look at leadership, how old is leadership, what kind of succession plan do they have, do they have good succession plans that the clients are really clients of the firm and not clients of the department.
dominic piscopo (21:06.179)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (21:22.146)
mm-hmm.
frank longobardi (21:23.63)
so that when a partner retires, the client doesn’t feel any allegiance to the firm. so you always want to look at that. you like to see it go to market strategy. i’m a big believer that you go to market by industry group, so that if you have strong industry presence, it’s going to give you the market permission.
dominic piscopo (21:24.707)
yeah.
frank longobardi (21:47.066)
to grow in that industry and you need, you know, need famous people in that industry that really know the industry inside out. you know, one of the things we did at cohnreznick, because we basically assigned every partner to an industry. now they could spend 100 % of their time in the industry or maybe they spent 60, but then they had to have a backup industry to spend the remaining time. and that made a huge difference in our capabilities and how we service.
dominic piscopo (22:04.099)
yeah.
frank longobardi (22:15.724)
our industry clients. so i think firms that have strong industry groups and go to market with an industry playbook, those firms i feel are a step ahead of some of the other firms.
dominic piscopo (22:29.262)
okay. that’s, that’s really interesting. and this kind of brings me to my last question. i don’t want to keep you too long. um, the, like you seem like you’re incredibly plugged into what’s going on in the industry. was that the case when you were kind of coming up the ranks at, at cohnreznick? because i feel like a lot of partners, particularly at large firms, like once you get into the a hundred million plus revenue range, they end up very siloed, like
you only know what’s going on in your own firm. you only do the cpe provided by your firm. you go to your firm’s conference and things like that. but you seem like you have a very like an excellent grasp of the overall industry and what’s going on. was that the case when you were a partner? and if so, do you think that that made a huge difference to helping you kind of rise up into more leadership?
frank longobardi (23:16.268)
yeah, that’s a great question. you know, when i had my own firm, i would tell you the answer was probably no. and i say that because when you have your own firm, you are wearing so many hats. i mean, you’re trying to grow the business. you’re out three, four nights a week at events. you’re trying to service the client. you’re working 15, 16 hundred charge hours.
dominic piscopo (23:24.354)
okay.
dominic piscopo (23:31.331)
yeah.
frank longobardi (23:43.446)
you know, you’re trying to keep the staff happy and trying to, you know, provide opportunities to the staff. so you have all these competing interests and, you know, and sometimes what gets lost in that is you don’t take that step back and understand what’s happening around you. and i would say when i became part of j.h. cohn that changed. and, you know, and i needed to be more…
you know, more absorbing of what was happening around me. i, you know, i’m running 10 industry groups, so i needed to know what the industries were doing, you know, what was happening in those markets, what were other firms doing. so that really kind of opened my eyes and allowed me, i think, to really move, you know, move up my thinking as to how, you know, you should manage and run a firm. but when you’re in a smaller firm,
you’re in survival mode. just want to, you know, every day is, you know, you’re slugging it out, you know, to keep the firm running smoothly and make sure that you’re providing good clients. you know, i used to remember i’d get a call, you know, a client was leaving the firm and, know, my partners wouldn’t come near me because they knew i was, you know, my blood pressure was like up to here. and, you know, i just, i hated losing business. didn’t matter what the size of it was. i just hated losing business.
and it always bothered me, but as you get into a bigger firm, you realize that you can’t service every client. there’s certain clients you just have to let go and you have to spend your time really, really, no one client’s going to kill you. so you have to really be focused on taking care of the great clients. and i think that was a major mental shift for me as i progressed in the ranks.
dominic piscopo (25:04.206)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (25:13.955)
yeah.
dominic piscopo (25:32.972)
yeah. well, and it’s to me, it seems really important that people in those kind of senior leadership positions at the big firm kind of take note of that because the leverage on one thing you might apply when you’re in a thousand person firm, right? you pick up on one best practice from a conference you go to or, or someone else from another firm that you’re hanging out with and you apply that to your firm, you know, that might be several million dollars worth of value that you’ve unlocked.
whereas i do understand when you’re a smaller practice and you’re in survival mode and you’re just trying to get by, get through the day. it’s obviously not a reasonable ask, but to me, it does seem very important that some more senior leaders end up at those places. and, you know, we saw a lot of senior leadership from, certain firms that at firm growth forum, but you’re still not seeing like a swath of partners from.
you know, top 25 firms for the most part in those places. and i think that that would do a lot of good to a lot of those firms operations and how they treat people and cultures and all of that if, if they were kind of taking that all in. so, yeah.
frank longobardi (26:38.25)
that’s a good point. i think, listen, as a top 25 firm, in some respects, those partners, know, the ceos of those firms have a responsibility to give back to their profession and to, you know, attend some of these conferences. people will be really excited to see them and spend time with them. and, you know, what you’re doing is you’re just spreading your brand, right? building your brand and, you know, building your following, which is, you know, which is really important for those firms. so it’s a good, it’s a good comment.
dominic piscopo (27:08.268)
yeah, well, thank you so much for taking the time, frank. i really appreciate it. and it was it was just it was nice. it was really nice meeting you at the conference. and you brought a lot of kind of new perspective that, again, a lot of people don’t necessarily have access to or or people who’ve been in the industry and, you know, all of these different levels in the industry like you have. so, you know, thanks a lot from myself, but i’m sure also to many, participants in the industry for all that you do and for staying involved.
frank longobardi (27:34.638)
yeah.
yeah, it was fun. and if i can just put one, one plug in, just, um, you know, i’ve been doing some work with sappro quite a bit, you know, around their, their firm. and i do, i will ask firms to really look at their global staffing strategy because right now accounting firms are in a spot where many of them are overstaffed. so they’re not really thinking about the next downturn. and i can tell you, i’ve been in this profession for 40 years. the next downturn will come.
dominic piscopo (27:42.113)
absolutely.
frank longobardi (28:07.962)
where people are leaving the profession again and your turnover is going from your 8 to 10 % today back up to 15 to 16 or 17%. and by having a global staffing strategy, i think it makes a lot of sense. and when i see the firms that i look at from a diligence perspective for the pe firms, many of them have already set up their own global centers.
they might have 50, 100, 200 people at those centers and it’s going to make you more attractive to a private equity firm. so think there’s a lot of opportunity there to kind of build that. and it’s not as difficult as you might think. it takes time, but there are really best practices that you can use to kind of develop your offshore strategy.
dominic piscopo (28:57.792)
mm well, and again, i’m happy they’re working with you and they’re getting the kind of real, real perspective so they can be absolutely connected to the industry. so i’ll make sure i link sapro and i will also make sure that i link kind of how to get in touch with you because again, it’s it’s astounding how much you are still involved in the industry and i’m sure the impact that you’re having on a lot of the places that you’re working with.
if anyone’s listening and they’re trying to get unstuck and they need a little bit more industry perspective, you’d be a great person to speak with for sure.
frank longobardi (29:23.45)
yeah. well, thanks, tom. i really enjoyed meeting you as well and i enjoyed today’s session and let’s keep in touch.